Trying my luck here...Hot starting woes...

88stangracer · Sep 8, 2004

YES YES YES YES!!!!!

GUYS ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH! MY CAR IS (WELL LETS SAY "WAS") DOING THE SAME THING. CHANGED OUT THE COOLANT TEMP SENSOR AND THE STANG RUNS GREAT AND CRANKS UP NICELY HOT OR COLD. I CHANGED EVERYTHING ON HER TO GET IT WORKING. LETS SEE: STARTER, STARTER SOLENOID, TPS, IAC, PIP, COIL, PLUGS, WIRES, EGR, EGR SENSOR, ROTOR, CAP, MAN THE WHOLE NINE YARDS. WELL ATLEAST NOW SHE'LL RUN GOOD FOR AWHILE SINCE EVERYTHING HAS BEEN REPLACED NOW. THANK YOU GUYS GRACIOUSLY, I GOT MY RIDE BACK. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mattys5Oh · Sep 8, 2004

Wow, I'm glad to see my thread has helped more then myself out!!

Matt

5spd GT · Sep 8, 2004

Mattys5Oh said:
Yup, starts right up.

It's the sensor in/on the tube that's attached to the lower intake behind the alternator. I didn't have to drain the antifreeze when I changed the sensor. The coolant was all the way to the top and the spilling of it was minimal to none.

Matt

*EDIT* It costs $18.99 from Autozone.

Hmm...is it "big or little"...I'm going to look for it tomorrow...because I bet mine is related because I know when I was transferring all the little things over (sensors, etc) from the stock lower intake to the new Performer lower intake the "coolant sensor" would not screw down as far as it did in the stock one...I was afraid I would crack it if I went any further...so you think the sensor being UP instead of in the regular position could cause the hot start problem?...

The only problem is that if the coolant sensor won't go down far enough anyways...a new one won't solve it because it would be the same size...

Mattys5Oh · Sep 9, 2004

5spd GT said:
Hmm...is it "big or little"...I'm going to look for it tomorrow...because I bet mine is related because I know when I was transferring all the little things over (sensors, etc) from the stock lower intake to the new Performer lower intake the "coolant sensor" would not screw down as far as it did in the stock one...I was afraid I would crack it if I went any further...so you think the sensor being UP instead of in the regular position could cause the hot start problem?...

The only problem is that if the coolant sensor won't go down far enough anyways...a new one won't solve it because it would be the same size...

Uuumm it's pretty small actually. the part # from Autozone is an SU201. It's made by Wells. Just the sensor being moved after years of being and sitting still could do something I guess?? The new sensor looks to have a bigger reading area.

Matt

redterror302 · Sep 9, 2004

Are you guys talking about the coolant temp sensor for the guage that is directly screwed into the manifold, or the sensor that is in one of the black metal lines hanging above the intake?

Mattys5Oh · Sep 9, 2004

redterror302 said:
Are you guys talking about the coolant temp sensor for the guage that is directly screwed into the manifold, or the sensor that is in one of the black metal lines hanging above the intake?

I am talking about the one that is in one of the black metal lines that is just above the lower manifold.

Matt

redterror302 · Sep 9, 2004

Ok cool. My car never just can't start when hot, it just cranks real hard and slow. Runs fine then. Is this the same thing you were experiencing?

04sleeper · Sep 9, 2004

Storing this info in the back of my head. Thanks!

5spd GT · Sep 9, 2004

So which of the two here pictured is it?

http://secure.50resto.com/product1.cfm?SID=1&Product_ID=225&Category_ID=548

or....

http://secure.50resto.com/product1.cfm?SID=1&Product_ID=659&Category_ID=548

The first one is $30 bucks for a motorcraft one

Mattys5Oh · Sep 9, 2004

5spd GT said:
So which of the two here pictured is it?

http://secure.50resto.com/product1.cfm?SID=1&Product_ID=225&Category_ID=548

or....

http://secure.50resto.com/product1.cfm?SID=1&Product_ID=659&Category_ID=548

The first one is $30 bucks for a motorcraft one

It's the first one.

Matt

Mattys5Oh · Sep 9, 2004

redterror302 said:
Ok cool. My car never just can't start when hot, it just cranks real hard and slow. Runs fine then. Is this the same thing you were experiencing?

No, your problem sounds more like heat sink affecting the starter. My car would crank like a champ when hot but wouldn't catch.

Matt

5spd GT · Sep 9, 2004

Hmm...well my cranks slowly (you actually hear it turnover) and will finally catch unless the car is overheated...then I have to wait a few minutes...and it will start up slowly...but once it is started it runs perfectly fine...

I don't think mine is the heatsoak from the headers to the starter because I used the same headers during the h/c/i swap...and it started doing this after the swap

Edit: Actually now that I think about it it cranked "fast" but it had a stutter right before it would actually start...I guess I'll have to spend $30 bucks on a sensor

Surely it isn't the headers...

johnkeltgen · Sep 10, 2004

Okay, let me see if I can duplicate the problem:
1. Car is cold and cranks great.
2. Drive the car for a little while, turn it off.
3. When you turn the key it: Almost sounds like a dead battery? Takes forever and a day to get it to turn over.

I have the EXACT same problem with my car. The starter was fine, coil was fine, all electrical stuff was fine. I was told that it was a common problem with the car and that I needed to get a heat shield for the starter. Any thoughts on this?

HISSIN50 · Sep 11, 2004

johnkeltgen said:
I was told that it was a common problem with the car and that I needed to get a heat shield for the starter. Any thoughts on this?

that is what 5sp is talking about when he referred to heatsoak. wrapping the headers or putting a shield in could keep heat away from the starter.

Mattys5Oh · Sep 11, 2004

HISSIN50 said:
that is what 5sp is talking about when he referred to heatsoak. wrapping the headers or putting a shield in could keep heat away from the starter.

Or swapping in a starter from a 92+ Ford/Mustang. They are much smaller and are high torque.

Matt

5spd GT · Sep 11, 2004

Mattys5Oh said:
Or swapping in a starter from a 92+ Ford/Mustang. They are much smaller and are high torque.

Matt

See I have one of those starters (1993)...and mine still does it...

It can't be the headers because it didn't do this before because I used the same headers before the h/c/i swap and this didn't do that before...just after...

I think it is either coolant sensor related or that my timing is at 16* (would that do that)...

Plus my car doesn't want to rev when I first start up the car...it has to get mildly warm before it is actually touchy...you have to hold down on the gas almost two times as long to get the same effect?...Why would it do that? Just when cold...

HISSIN50 · Sep 12, 2004

5sp, i might confirm that your grounds and power cables are in good order. with heat, their resistance increases. ive even put a wire with alligator cables on (in parallel) as an 'assistant' to see if grounds were up to the task (be careful of shorting issues, etc, if doing so on a power wire).

the ECT, etc idea sounds good. JR has posted values for the ECT and ACT sensors before. BTW, i see nothing wrong with 16* base timing (though you could always retard it for fun - i think you would have cold start issues if it were too far advanced).

good luck.

itltrot · Sep 14, 2004

Wow this thread is just what I was looking for!!!

My car is doing the same thing. Refuses to start after it gets hot.

We have tried everything we could think of except the ECT But we will try that soon enough!

Thanks guys!

5spd GT · Sep 14, 2004

HISSIN50 said:
5sp, i might confirm that your grounds and power cables are in good order. with heat, their resistance increases. ive even put a wire with alligator cables on (in parallel) as an 'assistant' to see if grounds were up to the task (be careful of shorting issues, etc, if doing so on a power wire).

the ECT, etc idea sounds good. JR has posted values for the ECT and ACT sensors before. BTW, i see nothing wrong with 16* base timing (though you could always retard it for fun - i think you would have cold start issues if it were too far advanced).

good luck.

How do I confirm that the grounds and power cable are in good order...? I'm not to good at wiring?...

redterror302 · Sep 14, 2004

What kind of things can I do to prevent heat soaking the starter, without getting a new starter? Could I just get some sheet metal and create a shield for it? Does anyone ever do that? If so, what thickness steel would I need to even make a little bit of a difference?

Trying my luck here...Hot starting woes...

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