Ugh! DVS restorations just upped their price for the IRS install kit by 300 bucks!!!

simplyJ · Jan 18, 2006

Been in contact w/ David from DVS for the past month about his install kit and I finally went to go order it today and what do I see? the base kit is now $1599!!! That is a 300 increase since last month... no changes to the kit that I can see, no new R&D costs, maybe there was some crazy rise in steel prices that I don't know about but I can't figure out why their prices would shoot up $300. Almost 1600 bucks is a lot of money for some brackets, koni shocks, and hypercoil springs. All David said was " Unfortunately, we are subject to price
increases on just about everything in the kit, especially the sheet metal
parts, so the price increase was unavoidable." This puts a damper on my plans /rant

xoxbxfx · Jan 18, 2006

LMAO!!! their steel cost went from $15 to $20

NasaGT · Jan 18, 2006

They had an article in this months "Mustang Monthly" - they must think the new exposure warrants higher prices.

simplyJ · Jan 18, 2006

i think it is absolutely ridiculous... I spoke to dave several times last month and at no point did he warn me that costs may increase. It took me a little time to source an IRS... and now that I already bought one I guess I'll have to eat that $300. Just seems a little ridiculous to me and very shady.

302 coupe · Jan 18, 2006

it wouldn't suprise me if they had someone else doing the fab work for them. Maybe they're just having to pass along the price hike that they are having to pay.

jbuening · Jan 18, 2006

Seems alot of the suspension companies are hiking their prices up due to steel prices lately. Pricing note from Griggs Racing:

Notice to All Customers and Dealers
of Griggs Racing Products
We have enjoyed a long run of relatively stable and predictable manufacturing costs for the past 15 years. Unfortunately, both in the US and worldwide raw material and energy prices that affect manufacturing costs have been climbing steadily at a staggering rate since January 2004. We all see what is happening at the pump, but not so well known is that steel prices have doubled, and some outside processed steel components we utilize in our manufacture have increased even more dramatically. Further, industry insiders predict prices to continue climbing due to the rapidly growing Chinese demand for oil and steel.
To date, we have absorbed these cost increases, but we no longer can. And while our manufacturing costs are currently unstable, and since it takes considerable time and expense to reset prices on a published catalog as large as ours only to have them possibly be outdated as soon as published, we have decided to adjust our prices on an invoice by invoice basis for the time being by adding a "Materials & Energy Surcharge" based on the current costs of our inventory and handling at the time the order is placed. This will appear as an invoice line item and be a percentage of the total in-house manufactured products on each invoice when the order is received. It will NOT appear on a quote or estimate. This surcharge will be subject to sales tax where applicable.

Please note that in this way we are attempting to continue keeping your costs as low as possible during this time of market flux, while still offering you the same quality of manufacture and performance you have come to expect from Griggs Racing. However this surcharge will most likely mean you should soon see a 5 to 25 percent increase in your cost of our goods made here in our facility. Further, I would assume such increases will eventually follow for any other out-sourced steel based manufactured products that Griggs Racing or any other company resells before long as well. Please keep this in mind when looking up our prices to plan your next project. Also keep in mind that for the foreseeable future this surcharge will most likely continue to increase, so the sooner you place an order, the sooner you lock in your price.

Dealers should inform their prospective clients of this situation.

Thank you,
Bruce Griggs

simplyJ · Jan 18, 2006

i understand that global steel prices are beyond the control of DVS, however, a $300 price hike for suspension brackets is a lot of money to attribute to raw steel prices. In addition, I have had several conversations with Dave via email in December and at no point did he inform me of a potential price hike or advise me to act fast. It just seems that they want to make more of a profit since they are the only people who make such a kit and now their exposure has been increased due to the magazine article.

jbuening · Jan 18, 2006

Well if you have been in contact with him in the past few weeks or so then i'd mention that to him. It would be different if you started talking to him after the price hike. I'd let him know about it and he just might give it to you for the $300 less. Dave is a damn nice guy and pretty understanding

simplyJ · Jan 18, 2006

jbuening said:
Well if you have been in contact with him in the past few weeks or so then i'd mention that to him. It would be different if you started talking to him after the price hike. I'd let him know about it and he just might give it to you for the $300 less. Dave is a damn nice guy and pretty understanding

I tried that and was told that I was pretty much SOL. I do admit that Dave has been very helpful in responding to all my previous emails and seems to be a nice enough guy so I may give him a call when I get out of class today and see if there truly is nothing that can be done. I just cannot justify 1600 for an installation kit.

iskwezm · Jan 18, 2006

NasaGT said:
They had an article in this months "Mustang Monthly" - they must think the new exposure warrants higher prices.

Yup,they probably couldnt get rid of the kits before,now they get a few calls and (hey, lets raise our profit margin) boom

68modstang · Jan 18, 2006

I was considering doing the same conversion, and was on the fence about the price before the price hike. I know reenmachine offers a full conversion kit with the IRS, maybe he'll offer up the the hardware seperately. Worth giving him a call.

DarkBuddha · Jan 18, 2006

Sounds like crap to me too, but I'm guessing they're betting on their new exposure in Mustang Monthly bringing in higher paying buyers in general. I mean really, an IRS is a luxury in our hobby (it isn't really necessary for good performance), so they probably figure that folks that can/will pay the $1300 for a luxury like IRS can/will probably pay $1600.

BTW, I'm assuming that price doesn't actually include the rearend or the actual IRS itself, right? Hell, there are plenty of rear suspension rigs that will perform as well or better for less coin. For that kinda coin I'd check out AirRide's kit...

simplyJ · Jan 18, 2006

DarkBuddha said:
Sounds like crap to me too, but I'm guessing they're betting on their new exposure in Mustang Monthly bringing in higher paying buyers in general. I mean really, an IRS is a luxury in our hobby (it isn't really necessary for good performance), so they probably figure that folks that can/will pay the $1300 for a luxury like IRS can/will probably pay $1600.

BTW, I'm assuming that price doesn't actually include the rearend or the actual IRS itself, right? Hell, there are plenty of rear suspension rigs that will perform as well or better for less coin. For that kinda coin I'd check out AirRide's kit...

nope, that's just for the brackets, shocks, and springs. I'd definitely look into other suspension setups but I already bought a 99 cobra IRS to do this swap. It's either ebay it (and prob lose money) or just get the bracket kit (and skimp 300 bucks somewhere else on my build). Neither option really is very appealing at the moment... thats why i'm so pissed I just didn't pull the trigger on the brackets last month. If only I had known!!!

reenmachine · Jan 18, 2006

Well, I'm going to defend Dave. He's a great guy and I do a good bit of business with him, and he's unwaveringly honest and straightforward.

Yes, steel prices have gone up dramatically, and I'm sure this has something to do with it. There's a lot more to the story though. Everybody always seems to think "hey, that's 50 bucks worth of steel -- what a ripoff!" This is an ignorant statement to make. Shops like Dave's have overhead (lease, utilities, equipment, insurance, employees, etc.) and need to make a certain amount of profit on goods sold to cover this overhead. To do this, they price their goods and services at a point that they feel the market will bear. Due to the law of supply and demand, margins will be higher on some products than others. I know for a fact that Dave isn't getting rich off of IRS install kits, and if some publicity and a surge in demand allow him to charge a bit more, then more power to him.

How many hours do you think Dave spent developing his kit? I have installed several and his kits and instructions are perfect. How much liability insurance do you think he must carry to sell such a safety-critical item? How much time do you think he spends on the phone and in front of the computer answering all of your questions before and after the sale? All of these things cost money, either directly or indirectly.

As stated above, there are alternatives for performance suspension out there for less money. The fact is, if you want independent rear suspension and don't want to do it all yourself, the DVS setup is still by far the cheapest way to go. CTM Engineering T-5 IRS (the vintage Ford one) averages $7500 in parts. The Heidt's IRS averages around $5000 and takes a lot of fab to install. The new Blue Moon/Control Freak IRS is over 9 grand with no 3rd member. With DVS you can manage a great IRS for well under 3 grand if you try.

4MuscleMachines · Jan 18, 2006

Thanks for putting this thread into perspective, I understand $300 is alot of dough. IMO, what Reen says is so true and that extra $300 Dave now charges I am sure is more than made up for in his time to make sure your install goes in without a hitch.

deadonarrival · Jan 18, 2006

Dave is a stand up guy and great to deal with, magazine exposure is nothing new for him. He mailed me copies of several back issues of magazines and answered many questions when I was undecided about which way to proceed on my project. He did this prior to me purchasing anything from his company, and gladly offered his opinions on the many suspension options available for the early mustangs. When I purchased the IRS kit from him he shipped the product in a timely manner and the kit was as described.

Hopefully one of these days i can find time to start installing some of the parts I have been buying.

DarkBuddha · Jan 18, 2006

reenmachine, you make some excellent points. I don't think anyone is saying DVS didn't put in the time and work to make a good product, but I think folks are a bit surprised by a sudden $300 (23%) price hike. I think we'd all balk if car prices suddenly went up 23% for the same car as yesterday, and we all did balk when gas prices went up 23%. We're all just used to seeing more gradual price increases. Like Edelbrock manifolds that have risen 23% in price over 10 years. I do think these sudden price increases are becoming more common in general. Folks freaked when TCP prices nearly doubled for the r&p kits. Maybe it's just part of the nature of smaller (small-time?) companies and how affected they are by even small changes in their overhead and market. But I also think you probably got it right with:

reenmachine said:
...and if some publicity and a surge in demand allow him to charge a bit more, then more power to him.

I wish him luck with it...

HHStang · Jan 18, 2006

Dave reads and posts here and has been helpful to me, even though I couldn't spell IRS...

xoxbxfx · Jan 18, 2006

if I didnt have enough on my plate as it is, I would be fabbing brackets left and right and selling them. I understand it takes time and effort to build a kit but 23% is almost gouging.

I understand overhead and utilities but doing a large price hike isnt going to give you the extra sales. I always look at sales from a wholesale point of view. I would rather sell 20 units at $200 profit than 10 units at $400 profit because you get more advertising out of it. When you get good feedback from 20 people vs 10, you can expect more sales.

simplyJ · Jan 18, 2006

reenmachine said:
Well, I'm going to defend Dave. He's a great guy and I do a good bit of business with him, and he's unwaveringly honest and straightforward.

Yes, steel prices have gone up dramatically, and I'm sure this has something to do with it. There's a lot more to the story though. Everybody always seems to think "hey, that's 50 bucks worth of steel -- what a ripoff!" This is an ignorant statement to make. Shops like Dave's have overhead (lease, utilities, equipment, insurance, employees, etc.) and need to make a certain amount of profit on goods sold to cover this overhead. To do this, they price their goods and services at a point that they feel the market will bear. Due to the law of supply and demand, margins will be higher on some products than others. I know for a fact that Dave isn't getting rich off of IRS install kits, and if some publicity and a surge in demand allow him to charge a bit more, then more power to him.

How many hours do you think Dave spent developing his kit? I have installed several and his kits and instructions are perfect. How much liability insurance do you think he must carry to sell such a safety-critical item? How much time do you think he spends on the phone and in front of the computer answering all of your questions before and after the sale? All of these things cost money, either directly or indirectly.

As stated above, there are alternatives for performance suspension out there for less money. The fact is, if you want independent rear suspension and don't want to do it all yourself, the DVS setup is still by far the cheapest way to go. CTM Engineering T-5 IRS (the vintage Ford one) averages $7500 in parts. The Heidt's IRS averages around $5000 and takes a lot of fab to install. The new Blue Moon/Control Freak IRS is over 9 grand with no 3rd member. With DVS you can manage a great IRS for well under 3 grand if you try.

ok, i don't want it to seem like i'm slamming someone personally... all I'm doing is venting my frustration. Like I said in previous posts, Dave has been nothing but helpful... unfortuntely that is not all that is needed to do business. I'm not an idiot, I understand the R&D put into a product like this... but at the same time when looking for an abnormality we must look at what has changed... R&D and customer service has likely not changed much in the past month. When setting a price a business man usually factors in R&D and the cost of doing business. Nobody expects to get rich selling a product that is meant for a niche market and I applaud that. Dave never expected to get rich off a kit meant to install a Cobra IRS... but at the same time he factored that into the original price. However.. since last month two things have changed... the cost of steel and his avertising base. The cost of manufacturing those brackets is not high enough to warrant a $300 increase... I don't think anybody could say that at with a straight face. Also, I know several people who are sponsored by koni and their insiders say that while the cost of raw steel has increased it has not been enough to raise prices by 30%. So what's left? either the cost of making brackets has increased abnormally or the effects of supply and demand has been recognized as a money maker. We all understand that it does not take 1299.00 to make those brackets and supply the suspension products... but it was ok because Dave was the only guy who was willing to develop the product... but now he realized he could make more money so he is. And that is it.

Ugh! DVS restorations just upped their price for the IRS install kit by 300 bucks!!!

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Ugh! DVS restorations just upped their price for the IRS install kit by 300 bucks!!!

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