Ugh! DVS restorations just upped their price for the IRS install kit by 300 bucks!!!

simplyJ said:
ok, i don't want it to seem like i'm slamming someone personally... all I'm doing is venting my frustration. Like I said in previous posts, Dave has been nothing but helpful... unfortuntely that is not all that is needed to do business. I'm not an idiot, I understand the R&D put into a product like this... but at the same time when looking for an abnormality we must look at what has changed... R&D and customer service has likely not changed much in the past month. When setting a price a business man usually factors in R&D and the cost of doing business. Nobody expects to get rich selling a product that is meant for a niche market and I applaud that. Dave never expected to get rich off a kit meant to install a Cobra IRS... but at the same time he factored that into the original price. However.. since last month two things have changed... the cost of steel and his avertising base. The cost of manufacturing those brackets is not high enough to warrant a $300 increase... I don't think anybody could say that at with a straight face. Also, I know several people who are sponsored by koni and their insiders say that while the cost of raw steel has increased it has not been enough to raise prices by 30%. So what's left? either the cost of making brackets has increased abnormally or the effects of supply and demand has been recognized as a money maker. We all understand that it does not take 1299.00 to make those brackets and supply the suspension products... but it was ok because Dave was the only guy who was willing to develop the product... but now he realized he could make more money so he is. And that is it.

i totally agree...its not costs going up, its greed. You can get a sheet 4x8 of 1/8" steel for about $100 here locally in TX. How many bracket sets you think you could make out of that? 4-5 is my guess (could be wrong). I know and ahve felt the steel price increase because I ahve built a couple rotisseries over the last year and a half or two. My first one cost $325 in steel, 2nd was about #360 and my last was just over $400 for steel. All the same designs. Cost of steel has doubled in the last 5 years. I think he got his advertisement and his 15min of fame now he wants more money. We will see what happens to his demand. I was about to buy his kit but decided its just not worth that much. Im gonig to fab up my own kit.
 
xoxbxfx said:
if I didnt have enough on my plate as it is, I would be fabbing brackets left and right and selling them. I understand it takes time and effort to build a kit but 23% is almost gouging.

I understand overhead and utilities but doing a large price hike isnt going to give you the extra sales. I always look at sales from a wholesale point of view. I would rather sell 20 units at $200 profit than 10 units at $400 profit because you get more advertising out of it. When you get good feedback from 20 people vs 10, you can expect more sales.
But the point here is, if you could sell 20 units at $200 profit or the same 20 units at $400 profit, which would you choose? In a nutshell, that's how business works. Raise the price to the point where demand starts flattening, back off a bit and you're in the sweet spot. Trust me, I'd love to be in business to provide low-cost stuff to everybody as a public service, but then I wouldn't be in business.

I wish you the best of luck making your own brackets -- it sounds like you may have the skills and resources to pull it off. Most people don't, and that's why there's a demand for manufactured goods.

There's also a lot more to this kit than people think. "A couple of brackets and some coilovers" is actually four laser-cut, CNC-bent, TIG-welded, and powdercoated brackets, two custom Koni coilovers (there is no off-the-shelf coilover that fits, these are expensive units), Hypercoil springs in the correct rate, precision-machined stainless steel spacers that fit inside your frame rails to strengthen them and prevent crushing under load, a trick lower coilover mount for the aluminum A-arm, bags of premium hardware and fasteners, and all the little details like floor plugs, vent tube assembly, etc., etc., etc.

There's lots of other little stuff in there that I never would have thought of beforehand had I done it myself, and would have had to figure out down the road. Some items are key to making the system safe.

I absolutely understand the frustration associated with price increases, especially right now. See, pretty much every vendor raises their wholesale prices every January 1, and every retailer and installer has to deal with it. Update everything in the computer, change ads and website, deal with upset customers, and so on. On top of that, I've got customer car projects going on under agreed prices, and in these cases I can't pass the price increase along since we're already under contract, so my margin is impacted.

If you don't like the price, don't buy the product. That's how capitalism works -- you vote with your pocketbook. I just don't see the need to go on the forums and call someone "greedy" and "shady" over a price increase. That shows a lack of understanding and a lack of class.
 
I feel like my point has been lost during this discussion... and I think it can be summed up by looking at jbuening's post above... it's all about notice. If Dave wants to hike his prices up thats fine... but the point was that I talked to him last month and common courtesy dictates that if there is going to be a price hike like it is nice to notify your potential customers just like Griggs Racing did. I would have gladly paid 1299 for the custom bracket kit... but now I just can't afford the 1599 and I've already gone out and purchased a cobra IRS unit based on the 1299 price. Thus I am venting my frustration on the forum and notifying other potential customers of the price increase so they don't find themselves in the same position I am.
 
simplyJ said:
I feel like my point has been lost during this discussion... and I think it can be summed up by looking at jbuening's post above... it's all about notice. If Dave wants to hike his prices up thats fine... but the point was that I talked to him last month and common courtesy dictates that if there is going to be a price hike like it is nice to notify your potential customers just like Griggs Racing did. I would have gladly paid 1299 for the custom bracket kit... but now I just can't afford the 1599 and I've already gone out and purchased a cobra IRS unit based on the 1299 price. Thus I am venting my frustration on the forum and notifying other potential customers of the price increase so they don't find themselves in the same position I am.
I understand your point totally, and you expressed it well. Others didn't, and that's what bothered me.
 
Reen, It's nice to hear the occasional voice of reason. I dont think Dave is selling these things by the thousands or even hundreds, so its doubtful that IRS profits are purchasing furs and bling:rolleyes: . To justify his time, R&D, and lets not forget HUGE exposure to liability, he's got to make what he can. I'm so far away in my project rustbomb that I fear by the time I'm ready to buy Dave's kit, he will have stopped making them. See you in about two years Dave!
 
simplyJ said:
ok, i don't want it to seem like i'm slamming someone personally... all I'm doing is venting my frustration. Like I said in previous posts, Dave has been nothing but helpful... unfortuntely that is not all that is needed to do business. I'm not an idiot, I understand the R&D put into a product like this... but at the same time when looking for an abnormality we must look at what has changed... R&D and customer service has likely not changed much in the past month. When setting a price a business man usually factors in R&D and the cost of doing business. Nobody expects to get rich selling a product that is meant for a niche market and I applaud that. Dave never expected to get rich off a kit meant to install a Cobra IRS... but at the same time he factored that into the original price. However.. since last month two things have changed... the cost of steel and his avertising base. The cost of manufacturing those brackets is not high enough to warrant a $300 increase... I don't think anybody could say that at with a straight face. Also, I know several people who are sponsored by koni and their insiders say that while the cost of raw steel has increased it has not been enough to raise prices by 30%. So what's left? either the cost of making brackets has increased abnormally or the effects of supply and demand has been recognized as a money maker. We all understand that it does not take 1299.00 to make those brackets and supply the suspension products... but it was ok because Dave was the only guy who was willing to develop the product... but now he realized he could make more money so he is. And that is it.


there is more to it than just the price of steel, especially during the winter and with natural gas prices being raised, if you want to talk about gouging start there, there are any number of factors that can effect the price of goods and services. it's simple economics. another point was also made about liability that needs to be taken into account as well, since all of the new exposure he may have had to change his product liability insurance as well to keep up with demand.

as someone who has owned his own business i can tell you with absolute certainty that 2 things happen in the winter months, costs of running the business will go up and demand for a product or service (especially auto related) will go down.

i used to own a detail shop and the one and only reason i went out of business was that i didn't plan on or even expect what i just described to happen so drastically. had we started the business a few months earlier than we did i have no doubt we would have made it through the first year and i'd still be detailing cars and probably even be doing restorations by now as well. i have a lot of respect for anyone that can put a business together and keep it going for many many years. so before you guys start ripping on Dave too bad please keep these points in mind and also remember that if Dave wasn't making these parts you guys would be left trying to figure all of this stuff out for yourself and also have to be able to the R&D and the fab work to make the system work correctly.
 
My suggestion: pay attention to what EvM is working on.

Years ago I REPEATEDLY contacted DVS when I first heard about their IRS conversion, and never heard a word. Glad they have improved that. It does seem that there is a tendency to do some serious pricing adjustments on products for our classic Mustangs.

As an example, I was able to purchase Baer 14" brakes [PBR caliper; 2 piece rotors w/ Al hat; stainless lines; machined aluminum bracket for the caliper] for my GTO for $900+. Same stuff with a different hat [obviously!] and bracket...$100's more for a classic Mustang. And, this GTO is not a large market. They use metric sizing on the wheel pattern [5 x 120mm], so it doesn't have anything in common anywhere except the Holdens.

I see these companies produce mods for our cars and price gouge. Now, I am NOT saying they are making a ton of money. Most of these companies do not run an efficient business, but that is business management, not just product cost. Someone sets up CNC to produce a bracket or a gauge panel...and you are there. Once the program is written, it is done.

I am a capitalist, and want companies to make money...but I want to see better business practices. Like getting product out in a timely manner; customer service; honesty.

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