Whats up with my A/f ?

SilverBullet00 · Dec 10, 2007

hotmustang331 said:
Internet dropped out yesterday silver....and now SCTs site looks froze. No new posts since last month and it wont let me attach my datalog

Damn, that sucks. Well you can email it to me directly if you want-

jsbelisle@gmail.com

Smokeurhonda · Dec 11, 2007

I know a guy at Atomic autosports down here in MD. I beleive he has the same wideband as you. Granted he uses this wideband to tune multiple cars but I know he has been through about 11 of these units. Not the sensor, the unit itself. He just keeps getting them warrantied, and that's the only reason he has not upgraded to a better wideband. So it might not only be your sensor. But I would assume it is. Pretty much all wideband senors are sensitive to exteme rich conditions, but you do get what you pay for.

urban96 · Dec 11, 2007

SilverBullet00 said:
Is there a better replacement sensor I can get? I mean, if this thing is this fragile, I will replace one every six months at this rate. What Wideband do you guys run? I got the AEM because I heard from several people it was very accurate and cheap...

And if I fouled the sensor, do you think I fouled my 02s as well? I have an extra set of those

Ands its lean ---. it has the LEDs around the edge, and when it goes --- the leds are on the lean side.

their fragile but not all that fragile, just ceartin things are not good for them. moisture will kill them quickly thats why they recomend mounting them at 3 or 9 o'clock on the pipe. also its best to have it places as close to the header collecter as possible to get more of a true reading

also its best to have the wideband on whenever the car is running

SilverBullet00 · Dec 12, 2007

Can I email someone this file and have it analyzed? I think I am maxing out the fuel pump, this is some of the data-

PRES_DROP_F_INJ
90

RPM
5942

RTLS_FPUMP_DTYC
.677518

I lost traction, and traction control kicked on somewhere in there. This was after teh trac control for sure...

Maf ad count = 950
RTLS_FPUMP_DTYC= .9999998
PRES_DROP_F_INJ= 46.60352
RPM= 5813

Anyone have any input???????

Smokeurhonda · Dec 12, 2007

IF i'm reading this correctly it looks like your fuel pump duty cycle is presented in a percentage. If that is the case it looks like you fuel pump is at 67 percent. Which really doesn't make sense since your boosted. It should be up in the higher 80's. I dunno, get a second opinion. I'm used to using a predator.

SilverBullet00 · Dec 12, 2007

I think the traction control kicked on during that point, and it cut the fuel. I guess that was a bad example

Don 95Vert · Dec 13, 2007

The pressure drop across the fuel injectors should always be around 39ish - 90 is WAYYYY off from where it should be, but I'd have to see the whole log to be sure that may have been just a spike for some reason. If it truly IS 90 all the time then I'd start checking the fuel system, starting with the rail sensor, it may have failed - they do fail on forced induction cars, in fact we tell our customers to always carry a spare. But usually when they fail, the car stops.

And if it is true, the car would be running pig rich - which means the readings you are seeing are the result of the wideband reading the 02 in the raw gas. But like I said, that may have been just a spike.

The FPDC seems a bit low at about 68%, but well within normal range - than in the later log you posted it went to just about 100% - which if the PD was truly at 90% earlier in the run, would be expected - but then again, I'd need to see the whole log.

The MAF AD counts are at 950 which means you are really close to pegging the MAF - it pegs at 1023 IF the tune has been modded to give extra headroom.

If Tim did the tune, I'd ask him if you could email him a log to look over and ask for his suggestions.

hotmustang331 · Dec 13, 2007

SilverBullet00 said:
Can I email someone this file and have it analyzed? I think I am maxing out the fuel pump, this is some of the data-

PRES_DROP_F_INJ
90

RPM
5942

RTLS_FPUMP_DTYC
.677518

I lost traction, and traction control kicked on somewhere in there. This was after teh trac control for sure...

Maf ad count = 950
RTLS_FPUMP_DTYC= .9999998
PRES_DROP_F_INJ= 46.60352
RPM= 5813

Anyone have any input???????

Yes email it to me. Make sure its in the .CSV format and hasnt been converted to Xcel or something. Ill get on my laptop in just a second and send you my log file.

Email is hot66stang@hotmail.com

hotmustang331 · Dec 13, 2007

Log sent Silver...its a short log. About 500 seconds and nearly 10MB.

SilverBullet00 · Dec 13, 2007

I think this datalog might be flawed, due to the fact that my traction control kicked on. It looks sunny outside (im a shop at work right now so I cant tell) so I might try and do more datalogging tonight.

Don, I am sent the file to Tim this morning and I am sending it to Hotmustang tonight...... Do you want to see the full copy as well?

Thanks everyone for your support!

SilverBullet00 · Dec 13, 2007

hotmustang331 said:
Log sent Silver...its a short log. About 500 seconds and nearly 10MB.

Thanks man! Yeah, I was wondering how big it was when my blackberry gave me the middle finger, when trying to open it

SilverBullet00 · Dec 13, 2007

Don 95Vert said:
I'd start checking the fuel system, starting with the rail sensor, it may have failed - they do fail on forced induction cars, in fact we tell our customers to always carry a spare. But usually when they fail, the car stops.

What do you mean by the car stops? Like shuts off? Because that happend to my ONCE @ WOT- Everything was good and then the car just shut off. Turn the key, and it fired right up. Never had a problem since

hotmustang331 · Dec 13, 2007

Once it pops, your car will not run. It doesnt know delta pressure anymore and the car just wont run....usually also causes a fairly large fuel leak when the rail is pressurized. I dont carry a spare, but i really need to....only about $30.

My log is @ 12PSI BTW and LOL about the phone not liking that

hotmustang331 · Dec 13, 2007

Okay looking at the log your delta pressure is 50PSI for normal driving. usuually we aim for 39PSI....but MAYBE Tim sets the tune up this way for some reason. Shouldnt really hurt anything though, but I persojnally would want it @ 39PSI so its easier on everything (fuel pump, rail sensor, ect) for normal driving atleast.

Bad news is that your maxing out your fuel pump at 5500RPM. Fortunatly delta pressure only drops a few PSI....so you should be totally fine there as long as you dont up the boost. Its just not good being maxed out because overtime things dont work as well as they used to and if your on edge its easy to get pushed over.

I ran my car for quite sometime with it maxing out @ 5200RPM and I wouldnt see it lean any until around 5800-6000RPM. My delta pressure would drop all the way to like 24PSI. Also just because it reaches 100% DC doesnt mean the pump is 100% done....voltage still slowly creeps up and thats why it will go a while @ 100% before it starts loosing the battle.
My suggeston would be to upgrade the wire from the battery to the FPDM and from teh FPDM to the top of your fual hat. Your DC should drop to around 90% and give you a good bit more room....and only costs MAYBE $30. Simple to do as well.

Also, what was the temp durring the runs? Your MAf is hitting 967 counts @ 5600RPMs and thats fairly close to the 1023 limit (which im almost 100% sure Tim set it to 1023). If its warm out, you may have to watch it in cold weather....and definatly need to upgrade the MAF if you change the pulley.

Also what gear was that log made in?

SilverBullet00 · Dec 14, 2007

Well, it was 35* outside and the pull was in second gear up to about 55mph or so. Unfortunately I am just starting to learn about fuel systems.... what is the FPDM, and where is it located?

In my datalog I was also looking at my LTFT and STFT's, and at WOT they do look pretty lean. When I tried to add fuel, it almost made it seem to run leaner @ WOT, is this because I Was then maxing out the pump sooner?

What MAF are you running??

BennyBlown2v · Dec 14, 2007

SilverBullet00 said:
Well, it was 35* outside and the pull was in second gear up to about 55mph or so. Unfortunately I am just starting to learn about fuel systems.... what is the FPDM, and where is it located?

In my datalog I was also looking at my LTFT and STFT's, and at WOT they do look pretty lean. When I tried to add fuel, it almost made it seem to run leaner @ WOT, is this because I Was then maxing out the pump sooner?

What MAF are you running??

FPDM is fuel pump driver module - it's located behind the drivers side trunk panel, it looks like a little box with a heat sink on it (its bolted to a reinforcement brace).

Honestly, stop trying to trouble shoot this. You have a wideband that isn't accurate - your maf is NOT pegging (no way), and your fuel pump should be FINE for where you're at...especially if you haven't gone WOT up past 4500.

TAKE IT TO A DYNO! Spend the $50-$150 to have it strapped down and do some pulls with a/f logged, and if they got it, log boost too. You're not going to learn anything from doing half and 1/2 pulls on the street with your traction control on (BTW turn the TC off with the xcal2, it's useless with that much power) when you don't have a wideband that's functioning right. Take the guess work out of the game and put it on the dyno!!!

SilverBullet00 · Dec 14, 2007

Benny, I think you are 100% correct. The only problem is, the only dyno place in town is brand new, and I have been hearing more and more bad things about them. I guess I will have to end up taking it there, just to see what happends.

When I talked to the guy at the dyno the other day he automatically wanted to think it was the MAF, and put a new one on the car. To me, if he is in this mindset, even if the headlights don't turn on, he will blame it on the MAF.

This is the reason why I was trying to trouble shoot it with the xcal2 and datalogs. I also wanted to try and learn as much as I could about all the parameters because I want to ge the pro racer package.

I will wait to see what Tim says about the datalogs, and then take her to the dyno

hotmustang331 · Dec 14, 2007

SilverBullet00 said:
Well, it was 35* outside and the pull was in second gear up to about 55mph or so. Unfortunately I am just starting to learn about fuel systems.... what is the FPDM, and where is it located?

In my datalog I was also looking at my LTFT and STFT's, and at WOT they do look pretty lean. When I tried to add fuel, it almost made it seem to run leaner @ WOT, is this because I Was then maxing out the pump sooner?

What MAF are you running??

Ok if it was 35*s then you should be totally fine....also remember that you will max your pump sooner in the cold weather so as it wamrs up your DC should come down.

@ WOT your STFTs default to the lambda your commanding at that RPM and are not actually pulling any data....this makes the EEC think its running the correct A/F no matter what @ WOT. Thats because they are only accurate at determining 14.64 A/F.
I looked at your logs and they go to .80 most of the pull. 14.64 X .80 = 11.7 A/F commanded. If you look where you let off a split second your 02s read the actual a/f and show a 1.2 STFT for that split second...IE rich like its supposed to be.
Above 1.0 STFTs is rich and below 1.0 is lean when NOT WOT.

Im running the SCT BA 2400 Only 924 max counts with 12PSI and a peak of 1.97 load. Plenty of room left for the stock shortblock

SilverBullet00 · Dec 14, 2007

is that 11.7 number a good number? Or is it more of a guess estimate due to the fact its not pulling any data?

I have so much to learn

If this is a good number, my wideband sensor is truely trashed. Where can I order a new one????

hotmustang331 · Dec 14, 2007

Well like I said, its not actually pulling any data....so even if you were running 13-1 it would still show that 11.7 is your A/F. So when you get your WB working, you should see the A/F reading 11.7...if it isnt then your MAF transfer is off. If its a bit richer I wouldnt worry about it....if its leaner then Tim needs to retune it

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