Progress Thread Evolution of the 'Hudson Heap' plans (87 GT)

[MadSquirrelTech]

Well, I've been working (albeit slowly) on my 87 GT in my spare time between building chicken coops, building out my workshop, clearing property on my homestead, etc. and have torn into things on the car a bit and learned as I go along. My idea for the car is starting to take shape and I'm making some purchases to go along with it. I started with a $7k budget available now (but will be able to do more as time goes along) and I'm trying to get things done in sections. For example, I don't want to pull the engine to clean the engine bay up, check the bottom end of the engine, maybe swap the heads, then go back for a cam later, so I'm trying to do what I need to before the engine goes back in, etc. Then it's time to replace the struts/shocks/springs and do brakes, etc. I plan to leave the body ugly for a while, so no big expenses there.

This car will be a weekend cruise around machine just for fun and giggles and for stopping by car shows and hanging out. It's not a big horsepower machine and I'm not trying to get every tenth out of it in the quarter mile. It's a smile maker, that's about it.

Where I'm having trouble deciding is what to do with the cam/heads. I have the stock E7 heads and a set of GT40p heads that look pretty good. I am planning on going with the On3 turbo kit (I've loved every turbo car I've had and they give me instant smiles, even over the higher power N/A builds I've had) and I'm trying to be wise with my investment. This is what I have planned right now:

• Terminator X system (already in hand)
• On3 standard single 70mm Turbo
• Walbro 255 fuel pump
• Injectors (47lb or 60lb, still deciding but probably just the 47s to avoid possible idle issues with such big injectors on a stockish engine)
• Performer RPM intake (the original, not the RPM II. The car already had it)
• Edelbrock 70mm throttle body (already on the car as well)

This will be attached to a freshened up T5 (most likely unless I talk myself back into a TKX and more $).

A major outstanding question for me is what pistons are currently in it. I should have the engine out and heads off this week and can check. It appears to be a rebuilt engine from a buld rebuilder 10+ years ago, so it might be factory forged pistons, some hypers, some cast, or a mix of those. LOL. Compression check is running about 125-130 across the board and it ran when I parked it a couple of months ago.

So, my question right now is, would it be worth it to swap the GT 40p heads on (I feel like it would), but then also, would it be worth investing another $800 or so in a cam/springs/rockers combo, or would it make a huge a difference with the turbo (I might do springs anyway just for peace of mind). That $800 could go a long way toward brakes and such, which I hear are important once the car actually starts to move.

Remember, I'm not trying to make a zillion horsepower or run in the 10's, I want a smile maker. I would love to hear from people that have added some PSI to a stock top end and see if they regret not doing a cam and stuff.

Thanks

The car because, why not? :

 

[bird_dog0347]

I'll say this, it's easier to do the cam while the engine is out and everything is apart... I would personally save that money for brakes/suspension/chassis stuff. Doing a cam swap later won't be *that* hard to do and will keep you more on track with the budget for now.

I hear the stock cam does well with turbo power however and has good manners too. Obviously you'll make more power with an aftermarket cam and it will sound a littler cooler too, but since you're not looking to make a ton of power leaving the stock one will help keep the power levels down and the stock block and T5 safe.

 

[Rdub6]

It's a smile maker

I like that! “Smile maker”…. Mine still has a stock motor and still puts a smile on my face! Granted…… I have plans to put a [bigger]smile on my face……. But that’s what it’s all about….. get out, enjoy these cars…… and the sound they make!!!!

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Thanks both for the replies. I finally got the transmission out tonight and should have the engine out tomorrow.Ffrom there I’m gonna pull the heads and see what kind of pistons I’m dealing with which will help me decide on boost and the way forward.

It looks like not only was the engine done at some point, but the transmission was. No tag on it, so I’m gonna have to figure things out by opening it up. It clearly has bad synchros (popped out of first, and I could hold it in second, never got further than that) and probably some chewed up gears. Should be fun.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

OK, engine is out and I pulled the head on the one through four side. Clearly it’s been rebuilt as it’s got .040 over pistons. Question is, does anyone recognize these or how knows an easy way I can tell if they are forged or cast or hypereutectic without popping them out?

 

[90sickfox]

Good hash marks on that cylinder man. Qith them being .040 over there's no need to even worry about them. That was the last rebuild that block can take. Looks like it was burning a little oil past the rings.

My car has a built 331 with cam and aluminum heads. I make good power at 7psi. A friend of mine has a completely stock engine with the same on3 kit and runs 12psi. His car is very tame until he puts his foot in it. Our power level is very close to the same by the seat of the pants. No meet for all the other stuff when you can just turn the boost up. A stick block usually lives until around 500hp no matter what heads and camshaft you have. If your engine was running well I'd clean up the tops of those pistons, install ARP head studs, and let her eat.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

*beep* *beep* *beep* *beeeeeeeeeeep*

We interrupt our previously scheduled build thread to introduce more silliness and options to the mix.

I picked up this '89 GT yesterday. It was a 4.5 hour drive each way, but it was worth it. There is a lot of rust on the body. Passenger floorboard is wasted, the hatch is wasted, door pillars are rusted through, the doors are pretty much shot, but the front clip is good and the glass is all there. The main reason I picked it up is, it came with 2 engines and 2 transmissions.

Engine 1 was in it., but blew a head gasket and was overheating. They said when the added coolant, it came out the tailpipe, so yeah... . The trans had a bad 2nd gear syncro, but otherwised shifted fine. The engine has sat for about a year with water still in it (probably the cylinders) so there is no way to know how bad it is until I pull the heads. I'm not hoping for much.

Engine 2 is from a 95 GT and looks to be in good shape. They were going to drop it in, but lost interest. It also came with a T5 from the 95, which they believe was in good shape. I know I have to swap the input shaft to work with my 87 or 89 engine but otherwise, I might just pop the top and see how things are looking.

bonus round... After making the deal, the guy said he had a stack of boxes of stuff he ordered for it, but never did anything with, so those went with it. It was 6 or 8 unopened boxes from Rock Auto, and we started cutting tape and checking things out. Turns out there was a brand new clutch kit, new in the box Energy Suspension Motor and Transmission Mount Set, poly suspension bushings, etc,. I still need to go through all of that to see what is all there again. I was in a hurry to get the stuff in the truck and the car on the Uhaul trailer so I could head home.

It was a long day, about 6:30am to about 1:30am this morning, but I now have a lot more options to work with.

I'll probably part out the 89, it seems to have a decent wiring MAF wiring harness and the MAF along with the ECU, intakes from both years, accessories, etc. and enough parts to help me out on my '87. I'll let you know how this all goes.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Good hash marks on that cylinder man. Qith them being .040 over there's no need to even worry about them. That was the last rebuild that block can take. Looks like it was burning a little oil past the rings.

My car has a built 331 with cam and aluminum heads. I make good power at 7psi. A friend of mine has a completely stock engine with the same on3 kit and runs 12psi. His car is very tame until he puts his foot in it. Our power level is very close to the same by the seat of the pants. No meet for all the other stuff when you can just turn the boost up. A stick block usually lives until around 500hp no matter what heads and camshaft you have. If your engine was running well I'd clean up the tops of those pistons, install ARP head studs, and let her eat.

Thanks for the info. I like the idea of running it with the stock cam and stuff. Now that I just got more options, I'm going to see how things are looking on the 89 block and have to think about more things. At least I have a decent motor if I need it.

 

[AeroCoupe]

The saw blade rims alone should net you $5...ha ha ha!!! Sounds like you got a good deal and have some parts to work with. Get it all sorted out and let us know.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

The saw blade rims alone should net you $5...ha ha ha!!! Sounds like you got a good deal and have some parts to work with. Get it all sorted out and let us know.

Indeed! One step closer to retirement

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

After dropping the car at our homestead and running back to my actual house Sunday night/Monday morning, last night I was finally able to look at some of the stuff that came with the car and was just tossed in the deal. A lot of the stuff was in unopened boxes from Rock Auto, plus 3 tubs of misc parts. They even labeled and ziplock bagged the bolts and stuff as they took parts off. Happy times.

What I found was a brand new set of Energy Suspension engine/transmission mounts and some other new suspension bushings, a brand new clutch set, a new set of lug nuts and studs, brand new front brake lines, and more. In the tubs are the old exhaust and emissions equipment, cooling stuff, electrical, etc and a fancy (cheap generic Chinese I think) shifter. It's shiney, so I love it

I also have a complete upper/lower intake with throttle bodies, fuel rails and injectors off the 89 and the 95. Wow there is a lot of stuff here.

Most importantly are the engines. The 95 engine looks pretty damn good so I think I will start with that. I know the pistons are hypereutectic, but I keep reading that they can stand up to some fun if you are careful with the tune. I mean, if it all goes wrong, it's not the end of the world and it's not like a piston failure is going to launch things into a low orbit. Probably. Maybe.

I always have the .040 over engine from the 87 to fall back on it I create some holy pistons on accident.

So, my plan is this, unless I am missing something...

• Slap the GT40p heads on the 95 engine
• Get some 47lb injectors
• Use the Terminator X EFI goodness
• Leave the cam stock (unless I can sell/trade some of the parts I now have for a B or E cam)
• Swap the input shaft from the 95 T5 with the 87 and use that trans
• Giggle profusely as I apply liberal amounts of boooooooooosssssssst!

QUESTION - Do you have to run roller rockers with a 303 series cam, or is it just something people always seem to do? I know the springs need an upgrade, but will stock rockers work ok?

 

[bird_dog0347]

Not sure I can answer many of those questions, but I can say that over the years if someone was going turbo and running a 303 cam, most seem to feel the F303 cam is the way to go.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Not sure I can answer many of those questions, but I can say that over the years if someone was going turbo and running a 303 cam, most seem to feel the F303 cam is the way to go.

Thanks. That gives me something to research.

 

[90sickfox]

It's always great when someone actually labels stuff and includes brand new parts. With camshafts you have to be careful that there are no piston to valve clearance issues. Going turbo on a stock block you really don't need a camshaft....but if you do get one I'd order from FTI Flotech Induction custom camshafts. ( Ed Curtis ).

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

And the fun will now begin...

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

A few boxes of joy arrived yesterday. I’ll be unboxing these and checking them out in the next week.

We are currently having to deal with a potential freeze here in Florida, so we’re in ‘save the plants and trees’ mode on the homestead. Good times

 

[95BlueStallion]

Another vote for stock cam. Keep it simple, as well as help keep the stock block intact by not being radical. I split a stock block with a naturally aspirated 347 combo.

 

[MadSquirrelTech]

Another vote for stock cam. Keep it simple, as well as help keep the stock block intact by not being radical. I split a stock block with a naturally aspirated 347 combo.

Yeah, stock cam it is, although I did order the Trick Flow spring kit and some ARP head studs to help it survive a little better. I'm hoping to get some work done this weekend between our fencing projects out at our property

 

[Cheapskate207]

This looks like a fun project! I’ll be following along!

 

[Noobz347]

I did order the Trick Flow spring kit

Yeah, valve float is real. I experienced it with my stock long block and the Kenne Bell when I first got it.