T-5 Conversion, Cable Clutch Issues....

[stangslvr]

I went with a T-5 behind my 302 and installed a cable clutch. Everything went together great, but when i went to try the clutch and adjust it, it was rock hard and wouldn't compress. I called summit racing where i purchased my clutch and they suggested i try an adjustable pivot ball. That actually helped, but now its still super hard at the bottom of the pedal and then the pedal doesn't come all the way back up. I haven't tested to see if it will even go into gear because I am scared the clutch is bottomed out or something. Any suggestions?

Here is the setup...
1967 mustang...originally automatic
installed 67 stang clutch pedal
t-5 conversion cable clutch setup
10.5 inch late model clutch, 28 oz flywheel etc.
Have lakewood scatter shield bellhousing
Used a lakewood clutch fork (longer than stock)

When i installed the clutch the pressure plate bottomed out on the flywheel and the teeth compressed quite a bit before the bolts got tight. I believe this is correct....right? I torqued the bolts to 18 foot pounds.

any thoughts would be appreciated...thanks

 

[j69302]

what cable clutch kit did you go with?

how does it mount to the clutch pedal?

Did you remove the return spring on the clutch pedal? I'm not using one on my 69. Diaphragm style clutches don't really need it.

does the clutch pedal move freely with the cable disconnected from the fork but still mounted on the bell housing?

 

[stangslvr]

This looks like the cable i went with. Without the cable connected, the pedal works fine. I also do not have a return spring set up...but wondering if I need one because it doesn't come back up. The cable comes through the firewall and has a bracket that attaches to the pedal with one bolt. Then the cable connects to a bracket that is mounted under the dash. When the pedal is compressed the cable does seem to work.

Ron Morris Performance: Clutch Cable Conversion Kit, 1965-68 Mustang

 

[afreejack]

It sounds like you might have an issue with the clutch itself. Did you get a matched set? (Sorry, I have to ask.When I changed mine to a cable, I almost bought only the pressure plate until someone recommended that I get the matched set and replace it all.) I also ran into a problem when I bought a Sachs flywheel and tried to bolt a Luk clutch to it. (ended up getting a Luk flywheel and it all worked out).

If you still have the car off the ground, put the tranny in gear with the clutch pedal up and try to rotate the driveshaft (easier to use the rear wheels if you have help turning both or holding one of them. Then try to rotate it with the pedal pushed down (clutch disengaged). If you can't turn them with the clutch pedal up and they turn with the clutch pedal pushed in, that will at least tell you if the clutch is disengaging or not.

A return spring isnt supposed to be needed because the the clutch itself is supposed to bring your pedal back up. It did work that way with mine (modern driveline clutch cable), that's why I mentioned the clutch itself as a possible source of your issue.

Wish I could help more....

 

[j69302]

New style, diaphragm clutches dont need a return spring on them. If you clutch is too stiff to put down with your foot, it should spring back just fine without a return spring. I think something is binding.

Sorry, Im not sure if these will help but Im just throwing some ideas out there.

Have you had someone push the clutch in while you look at everything move underneath?

When you say the pedal doesnt come back up all the way, have you tried to lit it up by hand? does it come up freely or does it feel like you're pulling something?

What brand and model of clutch do you have? What type is it? should be a diaphragm type.

what part number clutch fork did you go with? My kit from modern drive line came with a off the shelf 79-93 t5 fork. If i remember correctly it had a Ford part number on it.

I see lakewood makes 2 forks, one for "long style clutch" part number 15525, and one for a diaphragm style clutch, part number 15535. You should be using the diaphragm style fork.

did you align the bellhousing? I suppose that if you got the clutch and transmission shaft and pilot bearing all engaged its probably aligned but perhaps the clutch is at a slight angle where it slides on the splines of the shaft creating binding.

Im just throwing some ideas out.. Not sure if any of these will help.

 

[stangslvr]

This is all good stuff...thanks for the help. I did purchase a matched set, so the centerforce dual friction clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing are all a matched set. ( I actually started with a Zoom setup and when that didn't work, i switched thinking it was a clutch problem) The fork however might be part of the problem. The stock one I have from a T-5 didn't reach out the side of the housing...so I purchased the Lakewood long style. Thanks for pointing out that it doesn't work with diaphragm clutches! I will install my stock one here in a minute and see if the cable will work with it....I remember it not coming close to working before...but its worth a second look. I will take some pictures of everything and upload it here later today. Thanks

 

[stangslvr]

Ok below are two images. One with the longer style lakewood fork...notice the cable is straight and seems to fit nicely. The second is with the stock fork. The cable went on fine...which is better than i thought, but the cable has a small bend to it because the fork doesn't stick out as far. Is this ok?

Should I be able to hand compress the diaphragm by pushing on the clutch fork?

 

[stangman16]

Ok below are two images. One with the longer style lakewood fork...notice the cable is straight and seems to fit nicely. The second is with the stock fork. The cable went on fine...which is better than i thought, but the cable has a small bend to it because the fork doesn't stick out as far. Is this ok?

Should I be able to hand compress the diaphragm by pushing on the clutch fork?

How does it feel when you press in on the clutch with the stock fork?

How do you have your cable routed through the engine bay? I remember having my cable routed and it was causing it to bind (even though it really didn't look like it would) and that makes it extremely hard to press in, and if I remember correctly it would not come back up on its own. I have longtube headers not designed for a cable setup, it was a tough battle to find a good way to route the cable.

 

[v8only]

stangman is right, it's likely your clutch cable routing that's causing your problem...

 

[latamud]

I think you want to use the Lakewood long style fork, it helps give more leverage and should reduce effort just a little. Sounds to me like your ball stud pivot on the end of the fork might need to be adjusted outward some to place the throwout bearing closer to the diaphragm at rest. If you can get in there, look through the fork hole with a flashlight and see how close the TOB is to the pressure plate. It should be 1/16 to 1/8 gap, or even touching, even with the cable removed from the fork. And, by hand you will not be able to engage the pressure plate by pressing on the fork end.

My cables used to melt and cool off. Upon startup my clutch pedal would be ocked, heated up it would break loose, hot it was sloppy. I went hydraulic after killing cables for the past 5 years.

 

[Rusty67]

Not sure why the clutch cable is hard.

I double you could compress it by hand unless you are Collosus or something.

Have you measured the travel you get when you step on the clutch pedal ? You need about 1 1/8 inch of travel to properly disengauge the clutch. Check this at the bell housing and see how far the fork travels when you clutch in.

Do you have an adjustable clutch cable ? Check your preload.

 

[2+2GT]

This kinda stuff is why I prefer the "old-fashioned" pushrod and bellcrank OEM clutch linkage. It's all available (well, I can think of one piece, easily overcome) and works just fine.

Actually, nothing new about cable clutches, Corvairs had them for years before the Mustang was invented.

 

[v8only]

DOn't be intimidated by the cable clutch systems...You'll never have any issues with it as long as they're installed properly, routed correctly and do NOT touch anything that gets hot. I've got my cable routed within 1/4 inch or less in proximity to the header, but it's NOT touching...I have it triple protected with header tape, a vacuum hose, and then a spark plug heat boot and have never had a problem yet.

A properly installed cable system will last 100k -150k on the clutch cable and never have a problem. Hydraulic is ok, but I don't like the neutral feeling, I prefer a direct mechanical connection so I can feel the actual clutch engaging and engaging. With hydraulic you actually have more expense, and more "potential" failure points.

My 77 f150 has the actual old school direct linkage, coupled with a newer diaphram style clutch, and I have to admit, it's not a bad setup at all. The clutch really isn't that stiff, and it's rock solid dependable.

 

[psstevens1]

make sure your clutch cable is compatible with your headers. I bought headers prior to buying a cable set and in stalled it. I burnt it up after driving a few miles even after insulating both the header and the cable. When looking back at the manual for the cable it listed the headers that were compatible with the cable the ones i bought was unfortunately not listed

 

[Billm]

You could email or call Ron Morris. He is very helpful. I have his system in my car.

 

[CUAviator]

I have just about the same setup:
65 fastback
T5
Ford crate 306 (302)
Center force dual friction clutch

My stock cable snapped on me so replaced it with a modern driveline. Same result as you. Turns out when my cable snapped (accelerating from a stop sign), it knocked the pivot ball out of alignment. Initially the mechanic though I'd need a new pressure plate or even a new tranny. But alas, pivot ball.


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