Well now what?

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Ethereal_Zer0

Member
Jul 23, 2023
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5
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#1
Hi all,

New to these cars and trying to get educated a bit. I used to own a 94 Cobra and a 2010 GT500 but recently picked up my first fox body. It's a 1990 LX with a 306 in it. I believe it has flat top forged pistons, some budget aluminum heads, RR arms, GT40 upper/lower, Lunati cam, a 70mm TB, CAI, and a Terminator X system. Prob a couple other things I am forgetting, but that's the jist of it. I'm absolutely loving this car and have been enjoying playing with the tuning system a bit. I still need to get it on a dyno and get some numbers/have someone professional look at the tune (though it seems to run very well). Guessing I'm prob sitting somewhere around 250whp? I may just leave the car as is since it's a fun little city go-kart, but am also wondering what is the next step if I did want to start adding some more power? Where is my likely bottleneck with a system like this and what is the general upper limit of a motor like this? Thanks for the help guys, let me know if you need any more info to make some accurate guesstimations.
 

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#2
Congrats on the new car, sounds like it's got a pretty good baseline to start from. If you really want to add more power at this point, the FIRST thing I'd suggest is making sure your brakes, suspension, and chassis mods are already taken care of before going any further. Since you didn't tell us about those things, not really sure where to start with them. As for more power, the easiest way would be to add a supercharger and upgrade the fuel system (since you also didn't mention that part) which would get you another 100-150 RWHP.
 
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#3
Brakes and suspension. Seems like everything else is solid. The engine can handle just north of 500 if kept out of the high rpms. The transmission would be the weak link...auto or stick.
 
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#4
Thanks for the replies guys! I forgot a few things, glad you guys asked.

Suspension/brakes: The car has subframe connectors, an adjustable panhard bar, and the rest of the suspension is stock. Original brakes and wheels (4-lug setup). The previous owner also removed the power steering and replaced it with a manual quick ratio steering rack. Brakes are likely the first mod I will do followed by torque arm, RCAs, then struts/springs (I need to do way more research about how the suspension on these cars is setup and haven't looked into it much yet).

Engine/fuel: Forgot to mention that the car has 30lb injectors and also a 255lph fuel pump. Smog and A/C are also removed. Buddy told me the intake would likely be the bottleneck at the moment, especially if I install some kind of power adder. Any insight on that?

Transmission/Clutch: rebuilt T-5, aluminum flywheel, and a Mcleod clutch of some kind (twin clutch I think?)

Misc: Hi-output alternator and oil pump. FP plug wires, MSD distributor, accel ignition coil

What other mods should I look at for the chassis before looking at power adders? I'm assuming I should upgrade fuel system more too if looking to get up in the 475ish whp range? Hahaha and definitely brakes before any of that! Thanks again fellas, it's nice to be rejoining the community!
 
#5
Sounds like a good base, except for the brakes, those should absolutely be the first thing to upgrade along with wheels/tires to 5 lug. Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan, but if you think you'll get to 475 and keep that T5 alive I think we should tell you that will be a time bomb. For the brakes, if you can do a 5 lug upgrade and 94-04 Cobra brakes you'll be in good shape. If you do a power adder you'll likely want a little bigger pump and fuel injectors, but it will depend on the boost levels.
 
#6
bird_dog0347 said:
Sounds like a good base, except for the brakes, those should absolutely be the first thing to upgrade along with wheels/tires to 5 lug. Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan, but if you think you'll get to 475 and keep that T5 alive I think we should tell you that will be a time bomb. For the brakes, if you can do a 5 lug upgrade and 94-04 Cobra brakes you'll be in good shape. If you do a power adder you'll likely want a little bigger pump and fuel injectors, but it will depend on the boost levels.
Click to expand...
Yeah brakes definitely gotta get done first! Haha I know they are "ok" but they totally freak me out a bit. Thanks for the tip about the cobra brakes, I'll keep an eye out locally.

What kind of hp range is safe for the T5? I'm not trying to blow anything up. Not yet anyway lol. Oh dang, forgot one more thing! It has 3.73s in the rear too. Haha it really is a fun little car!
 
#7
475HP on stock brakes would scare me. At least put a set of Cobra brakes up front. If you leave the drums in place out back, you can get away with the stock MC. It would be a 9% decrease in piston surface area so your pedal feel would be just a tad bit firmer.
 
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#8
Ethereal_Zer0 said:
Yeah brakes definitely gotta get done first! Haha I know they are "ok" but they totally freak me out a bit. Thanks for the tip about the cobra brakes, I'll keep an eye out locally.

What kind of hp range is safe for the T5? I'm not trying to blow anything up. Not yet anyway lol. Oh dang, forgot one more thing! It has 3.73s in the rear too. Haha it really is a fun little car!
Click to expand...
For the T5, it's not necessarily a matter of HP or TQ, but if you get the tires to hook with say 400+ RWHP and are trying to launch it at a drag strip, eventually the T5 is gonna break. If you plan to street drive it and let the tires (traction) act as a circuit breaker it will be fine even with boost... but if you have traction and lots of power, it won't last. There are companies out there (Liberty I think??) that can build up a stout T5 that can handle the power, but at the prices it takes to do that it makes more sense to get a Tremec most of the time.

As for the brakes, LMR sells kits with everything you'll need if you want to go that route. It's not "cheap" but will be all inclusive and new parts. The only things you'd still need are a set of 94/95 front spindles and 5 lug wheels/tires. This is a proven setup for the foxbody cars that does not need anything special and will be just as good as most of the fancy big brake kits out there. If you want to get a little more fancy there is the option to use Brembo 4 piston calipers from a Cadillac ATS for about the same price as the SVE calipers which is what I put on my car but you have to be aware of wheel sizes there and use different rear calipers and use the proper master cylinder to get the right balance.

This link shows you all the options and the steps to build your kit, https://lmr.com/products/fox-body-5-lug-conversion-cobra

Below are the link's I'd use if it were me (assuming you have 28 spline rear axles).

lmr.com

Mustang Power Brake Booster (1993) Cobra - LMR.com

1993 Cobra power brake booster will restore the proper function of your Mustang power brake booster!
lmr.com lmr.com
lmr.com

Mustang Moser 28 Spline, 5 Lug Axles w/ 94-04 Flange | (79-93)

Complete your Fox 5-Lug disc conversion with these Moser 28 spline 5 lug axles with SN rear flange!
lmr.com lmr.com
 
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#9
If you can find a 1994 - 1998 V6 Mustang in the salvage yard then all you need to do is get the spindles, hubs, and calipers off of it as well as the complete rear end caliper to caliper.

Searched on www.car-parts.com and complete rear ends without ABS are anywhere from $150 to $300 in my area for a 1995 car. That gets you axles, axle brackets, caliper brackets, calipers, and dust shields. All of this will work with the Fox width 8.8 housing. You will most likely want to get reman calipers and new rotors along with new soft lines or SS braided lines. Depending on how they remove the rear end hopefully the do not cut the hard brake lines on the rear end.

Again, searched on www.car-parts.com and you can get the 94-95 spindles (optimum for a stock k-member car with 96-04 spindles optimum for tubular k-members) from $40 to $100 each and they typically come with the hub on them. I used to get both sides for $200 that would have the spindle, strut, hub, rotor, and caliper. From there you install the spindles and hubs on your car (will require 0.330" of spacer between the spindle and a stock Fox ball joint or switch to the 94-98 ball joint). Get new rotors and remanufactured 99-04 calipers and use the old calipers as cores. Reason you want the 99-04 calipers is they are twin 44mm piston calipers and bolt on the 94-98 spindles with very minor grinding and use the 94-98 rotors. Again you will want new soft or SS braided lines. If you use the factory soft lines you will need an adapter on the passenger side or you can get Fox to SN95 caliper specific braided lines and no adapter is needed.

I would also suggest a 1993 Cobra brake booster and either the 94-95 GT MC or 94-98 V6 MC (both have 1-1/16" bore) or the 1993 Cobra MC (1" bore) and install those. I have run both in the above system with zero issues and have run both on full Cobra brakes with zero issues.

It's a bit of work but you can end up with really good brakes that will literally exercise your seat belt under heavy braking. Remember to get some good pads and the more aggressive they are the more they dust. I would say all in you will be around $800 if you shop it hard but for the money they are really good brakes. I had this setup on my Coupe and when I switched to a full 1995 Cobra setup the braking improved but not what I would have considered worth the money for a street car. If you track the car then definitely worth it for the additional cooling and less brake fade where you will use the brakes a lot.

Anyhow, just wanted to provide another avenue for better braking that I have bought, installed and used when I drove the car daily.
 
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#11
bird_dog0347 said:
For the T5, it's not necessarily a matter of HP or TQ, but if you get the tires to hook with say 400+ RWHP and are trying to launch it at a drag strip, eventually the T5 is gonna break. If you plan to street drive it and let the tires (traction) act as a circuit breaker it will be fine even with boost... but if you have traction and lots of power, it won't last. There are companies out there (Liberty I think??) that can build up a stout T5 that can handle the power, but at the prices it takes to do that it makes more sense to get a Tremec most of the time.

As for the brakes, LMR sells kits with everything you'll need if you want to go that route. It's not "cheap" but will be all inclusive and new parts. The only things you'd still need are a set of 94/95 front spindles and 5 lug wheels/tires. This is a proven setup for the foxbody cars that does not need anything special and will be just as good as most of the fancy big brake kits out there. If you want to get a little more fancy there is the option to use Brembo 4 piston calipers from a Cadillac ATS for about the same price as the SVE calipers which is what I put on my car but you have to be aware of wheel sizes there and use different rear calipers and use the proper master cylinder to get the right balance.

This link shows you all the options and the steps to build your kit, https://lmr.com/products/fox-body-5-lug-conversion-cobra

Below are the link's I'd use if it were me (assuming you have 28 spline rear axles).

lmr.com

Mustang Power Brake Booster (1993) Cobra - LMR.com

1993 Cobra power brake booster will restore the proper function of your Mustang power brake booster!
lmr.com lmr.com
lmr.com

Mustang Moser 28 Spline, 5 Lug Axles w/ 94-04 Flange | (79-93)

Complete your Fox 5-Lug disc conversion with these Moser 28 spline 5 lug axles with SN rear flange!
lmr.com lmr.com
Click to expand...
Awesome, thanks for all the great info and the links! That's interesting about the Brembo calipers. I actually have a buddy who has an ATS, I'll have him give me a run down. Pretty sure I do have 28 spline axles. I think I remember the previous owner mentioning that.
 
#12
AeroCoupe said:
If you can find a 1994 - 1998 V6 Mustang in the salvage yard then all you need to do is get the spindles, hubs, and calipers off of it as well as the complete rear end caliper to caliper.

Searched on www.car-parts.com and complete rear ends without ABS are anywhere from $150 to $300 in my area for a 1995 car. That gets you axles, axle brackets, caliper brackets, calipers, and dust shields. All of this will work with the Fox width 8.8 housing. You will most likely want to get reman calipers and new rotors along with new soft lines or SS braided lines. Depending on how they remove the rear end hopefully the do not cut the hard brake lines on the rear end.

Again, searched on www.car-parts.com and you can get the 94-95 spindles (optimum for a stock k-member car with 96-04 spindles optimum for tubular k-members) from $40 to $100 each and they typically come with the hub on them. I used to get both sides for $200 that would have the spindle, strut, hub, rotor, and caliper. From there you install the spindles and hubs on your car (will require 0.330" of spacer between the spindle and a stock Fox ball joint or switch to the 94-98 ball joint). Get new rotors and remanufactured 99-04 calipers and use the old calipers as cores. Reason you want the 99-04 calipers is they are twin 44mm piston calipers and bolt on the 94-98 spindles with very minor grinding and use the 94-98 rotors. Again you will want new soft or SS braided lines. If you use the factory soft lines you will need an adapter on the passenger side or you can get Fox to SN95 caliper specific braided lines and no adapter is needed.

I would also suggest a 1993 Cobra brake booster and either the 94-95 GT MC or 94-98 V6 MC (both have 1-1/16" bore) or the 1993 Cobra MC (1" bore) and install those. I have run both in the above system with zero issues and have run both on full Cobra brakes with zero issues.

It's a bit of work but you can end up with really good brakes that will literally exercise your seat belt under heavy braking. Remember to get some good pads and the more aggressive they are the more they dust. I would say all in you will be around $800 if you shop it hard but for the money they are really good brakes. I had this setup on my Coupe and when I switched to a full 1995 Cobra setup the braking improved but not what I would have considered worth the money for a street car. If you track the car then definitely worth it for the additional cooling and less brake fade where you will use the brakes a lot.

Anyhow, just wanted to provide another avenue for better braking that I have bought, installed and used when I drove the car daily.
Click to expand...
Thanks I'll start searching Car-Parts now. I appreciate the amazing response, you guys are a wealth of knowledge!!
 
#13
Ethereal_Zer0 said:
Awesome, thanks for all the great info and the links! That's interesting about the Brembo calipers. I actually have a buddy who has an ATS, I'll have him give me a run down. Pretty sure I do have 28 spline axles. I think I remember the previous owner mentioning that.
Click to expand...
If you want more details on the ATS calipers, many of us have done them, and @Mustang5L5 even did extensive research on it when the swap first came out. Now there's a guy who sells the kit (S&S Engineering) to fit them to your spindles with little to no real mods and I bought that and it's well made and worth the money. For 99% of the cars out there, the Cobra brakes are more than enough, but if you want the looks there are options... but you have to take the whole system into account and match the rears with the fronts to get the proper bias.

Nothing wrong with 28 spline below 500hp without slicks, just need to know the proper size to get for the 5 lug. It sounds like you bought a fairly well sorted car to start with, I'd advise driving it as much as you can before modding it, cause that starts a bunch of work where you don't get go enjoy it as much.
 
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#14
The biggest drawback of the brembo calipers is wheel clearance. Most wheels won't fit them. Another swap are the 98+ dual piston calipers and 94 to 04 rear calipers. They stop way better than stock brakes but not as good as the cobra or SVE brakes. I used to run 98 calipers and drum rears ( worked OK ). 98 v6 calipers with 99 rear calipers, v6 master cylinder, proportioning valve, stock booster ( worked better ). The cobra front and rear, 93 cobra master, gutted proportioning valve, adjustable wildwood proportioning valve, and 93 cobra booster works the best so far. The cobra stuff can be found on RockAuto.

Depending on how you drive has alot to do with how long a T5 will last. I drove a 4 cylinder T5 for a couple years behind stout engines. ( 306, 347, and turbo 331 ). No issues with T5 but did start pushing through the clutch. This time was spent with very few cases of hard pulls.
 
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#15
ATS brembo wheel clearance is a big issue. It's why i don't run them. It's also a pretty powerful caliper to put on a car with small front fender opening (meaning tire size is limited) and without ABS. If oyu run sticky tires, you might be ok, but for guys running so-so tires or all-seasons because they DD the car, i would not run these. Lack of traction in a panic stop may cost you your car and I'd hate to see that. The standard 99-04 cobra brakes are more than enough for most folks on the street, especially with a lighter Fox. Biggest expense will be the spindles. The rotors are dirt cheap from rockauto and you can grab some calipers off ebay or rockauto.

the standard 99-04GT calipers are a good option as well but they are notorious for sticking, even remans. Given the cost difference of rotors and calipers and pads, it's not significant enough to pick them over the cobra brakes if you are buying all the components new/reman. I really wouldn't put used junkyard 99-04 GT calipers on, as sitting with old brake fluid for long time tends to corrode the bores and cause them to stick. Essentially there are more potential problems with these calipers that I say to just avoid them to free yourself of that hassle.

Benefit of the standard SN95 brake swap is parts are common and everywhere. You can walk into an auto parts store and get parts for these brake setups...at least for now.
 
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#16
5 lug, 99-04 brakes, 94 spindles, on my 83
DSCF1181.JPG
 
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#19
Depends on the brand. They don’t do it consistently

For example. I get told all the time my rotors are on backwards. But they are not according to the internal vanes.
F2021161-DE06-4D28-A99D-90D66F97EECD.jpeg



Need to install them based on this. The cooling vanes trail from the direction of rotation. meant to pull cool air from the center hat and sling it outwards. This is the primary cooling method. The holes and slots really don't do much.

1690385930781.png



I've seen manufacturers do them both ways
 
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#20
Yeah, I knew it was about the vane direction but I had in my head that what's in your image is backwards:

1690388568442.png


Largely, because on most aircraft systems, the vanes cut [into] the direction of air. On this image, it is reversed.

I do see though, that the vanes are the opposite of the hole pattern in the above image whereas they follow between the rows of the hole pattern on this application:

1690388780160.png


I guess this is the new thing (or they are just not limited by a drilled hole pattern):

1690388830827.png


It probably doesn't matter which way you install this type.
 
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