is there any verdict yet on beehive springs?

[jerry S]

I have read that if a beehive spring breaks, you drop a valve and ker-chunk. As such, double springs are recommended to prevent against this. However, the way I see it, if one of the springs in the double breaks, the other one would prolly snap under the load anyway and leave you in the same situation. If you do have double springs, how would you know if one of the springs breaks? Is it really noticeable? Finally, would a beehive wear out sooner than a double-spring?

I note that Crane makes Beehives but recommends them only for modular motors and not for pushrods. Any thoughts?

 

[Max Power]

Allegedly the performance advantage is that they don't vibrate like doubles due to different harmonics, and because of their design, you don't need as stiff of a spring so they are easier on the cam.

Odd that Crane wouldn't recommend them, I can't remember the last time I have seen a broken valve spring in street service.

 

[68stang351]

I have beehives on the 302 in the 90, but they've only been in since august. I guess that's not much service time for anything to go wrong with them, but I don't have any complaints yet.

 

[bnickel]

i don't think crane even makes a beehive spring for any application where they were not stock, like later 4.6's. Comp cams is the one that makes them for other applications. a double spring really was designed to provide a higher spring pressure for high lift cams to keep the vlave from floating and/or the spring from from bouncing not to keep a vlave from dropping in case one of them broke. beehive springs have a couple of advantages in that the springs don't bounce becuase of the inherent harmonics therefore the valve is less likely to float becuase the top of the spring is so much smaller in diameter the retainers weigh a lot less which allows the engine to rev faster and the entire vlavetrain has to work a lot less.

 

[rbohm]

beehive springs also allow for greater valve lift in a shorter package due to its design. this helps prevent coil bind and seems to reduce stress on the spring overall.

 

[bnickel]

another good point as well. really the only drawback i can see to a beehive spring is the price. last time i checked they were quite a bit higher than a normal spring but it's been quite a while since i checked so prices may have come down some.

 

[69gmachine]

another benefit

After bending 6 intake pushrods last year, I've replaced the entire valvetrain except for the valves themselves. I bought the Comp Cams beehives and when installing the heads (earlier today) I found that there is a lot more room to get a socket on the long factory 11/16ths headbolt. Maybe not a huge benefit, but it's just a nice bonus if you were already planning to get them. It will probably be a while before I get it back out on the track, but I'll report back on how well they held up to some extended high revs.

 

[BlackGMC]

I always have used the double springs, but IMO any after market spring you use, take it easy on the engine until the engine comes up to operating temp. Thrashing a cold engine with aftermarket springs will cause them to break.

 

[CraigMBA]

After bending 6 intake pushrods last year, I've replaced the entire valvetrain except for the valves themselves. I bought the Comp Cams beehives and when installing the heads (earlier today) I found that there is a lot more room to get a socket on the long factory 11/16ths headbolt. Maybe not a huge benefit, but it's just a nice bonus if you were already planning to get them. It will probably be a while before I get it back out on the track, but I'll report back on how well they held up to some extended high revs.

What was your theroy on why you were bending intake valves?

Did you use the stock AFR springs and retainers before?

 

[CraigMBA]

Odd that Crane wouldn't recommend them, I can't remember the last time I have seen a broken valve spring in street service.

You won't see one fail in street service. The ones that bite the dust are the ones that get heat soaked and then subjected to constant high RPM use, road racing or oval track.

Cup cars have a system inside the valve cover that sprays oil on the valvesprings to try to get heat away from them for just that reason.

 

[69gmachine]

What was your theroy on why you were bending intake valves?

Did you use the stock AFR springs and retainers before?

I had the stock AFR springs. The cam wasn't all that radical. I bent the pushrods on the intakes, not the valves themselves.

I've really struggled trying to figure this one out. I couldn't find any evidence of piston to valve contact. The pushrods were cheap OEM replacement for a small block Chevy. The length just worked out that way using a reduced base circle hyd roller cam with the AFR heads. I probably over revved it making a pass. My best guess is that I had a little bit of lifter bounce and the springs went into coil bind, but it's just the best theory I can come up with.

Sorry to hijack your thread Jerry.

 

[jerry S]

I had the stock AFR springs. The cam wasn't all that radical. I bent the pushrods on the intakes, not the valves themselves.

I've really struggled trying to figure this one out. I couldn't find any evidence of piston to valve contact. The pushrods were cheap OEM replacement for a small block Chevy. The length just worked out that way using a reduced base circle hyd roller cam with the AFR heads. I probably over revved it making a pass. My best guess is that I had a little bit of lifter bounce and the springs went into coil bind, but it's just the best theory I can come up with.

Sorry to hijack your thread Jerry.

No worries Daddy-O. The information you provided is gonna be useful and relevant to somebody, somewhere, and at some time. It's all good.

 

[CraigMBA]

I'm kind of in the same place with my stock valvesprings. They are only good to 5,800 rpm or so. I'm going to buy the beehive springs, if for no other reason, because it uses a smaller (lighter) retainer.

I'm cuious if your valvetrain geometry isn't casing some goofy coil bind at high RPM's causing you to bend the valve side pushrods.........might be something you check. Either way, how many RPMs were you turning? Was this at the drag strip?

 

[Helmantel]

Does anybody have experience with beehives in combination with an hydraulic roller cam?

I get valve float at around 5800 rpm, which seems to be a common problem with hydraulic rollers and I guess that having a short duration ([email protected]/[email protected] duration) and high lift (.533") doesn't help either.

I seem to recall a test where a switch to beehives springs seemed to help quite a bit, pushing the point of valve float some 700 rpm, which would be just what I need.

They aren't cheap, but spending another $200 on this money pit of an engine I have wouldn't matter much

 

[69gmachine]

I'm kind of in the same place with my stock valvesprings. They are only good to 5,800 rpm or so. I'm going to buy the beehive springs, if for no other reason, because it uses a smaller (lighter) retainer.

I'm cuious if your valvetrain geometry isn't causing some goofy coil bind at high RPM's causing you to bend the valve side pushrods.........might be something you check. Either way, how many RPMs were you turning? Was this at the drag strip?

No, it was on the front straight at Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama (an OT event). I was riding this guy's a$$ almost all the way around the track before he finally let me pass. The aluminum flywheel allows it to rev unbelievably fast. When he finally gave me the signal to pass, I nailed the throttle and downshifted. I was too busy watching the road as the next turn was coming up really fast and I was going too fast to take it safely (I'm a beginner). I couldn't watch the tach or the speedo (my group had a speed limit) but I could hear I was revving like crazy when I downshifted. Then the engine just lost all power and sounded horrible.

I don't know why there would be anything wrong with the geometry, but two of the OEM lifters were also damaged, so I've replaced all of them with the new Comp Cams link bar style hyd roller lifters. I'll use Comp Cams heavy duty pushrods this time, and I'm also going to switch to Jessel shaft rockers. Good parts are expensive, but so is wasting $300 in track fees, another $300 for Hotels, $200 in gas, at least $200 eating on the road (had my gf so I had to eat at a few nice restaurants) not to mention wasting my holiday weekend. Over a grand for about 25 minutes of track time. Why couldn't I enjoy collecting stamps?

 

[CraigMBA]

It was the stock valvesprings. You probablly overreved it downshifting.

All the guys who run the NASA series change them right up front, even in the slow class.