The best of the best. CAI + Tune !?

[xtweakerx]

Alright, lets hear everyones opinion on what is the best of the best CAI and TUNE out there.


Some say C&L + Xcal2

some say Steeda + Xcal2


Lets hear it, i think im finnally going to upgrade from stock!

 

[claytucc3]

Without a doubt C&L......plus I think that their intake looks better

 

[skyhazzard]

Demolet w/ Xcal 2, cheaper and more power. Custom painted CAI and SCT for $500. Awsom service and very military(discount) friendly. I would highly reccomend.

 

[Five Oh Brian]

After reading MM&FF's CAI article about a year ago (they tested a bunch of them on an S197 GT at the dragstrip - the real world dyno) I became very skeptical of CAI's doing anything other than looking cool. Good read that kept me from throwing away a few hundred bucks on a CAI. The only CAI that added any performance above and beyond the tune by itself was the WMS front-mounted ram air unit. MM&FF showed a real improvement in the 1/4 mile with this one, while all the others showed no improvement. If you have to get a CAI, this should be high on your list.

When I bought my 07 GT, I started looking at the eye-candy that is CAI. The company I bought my DiabloSport Predator tuner from claimed it was good for up to a 27hp increase. They also sold a package that included the C&L CAI and Predator, and claimed it was good for up to a 31hp increase. That tells me that the CAI was worth 4hp. Yikes, that's a lot of money for 4hp. So I passed on the CAI, and bought just the tuner.

Now, for those who choose to get the CAI anyway, you have to tune for it or you'll run lean. I did this on my 03 Mach 1. Bought the C&L TrueFlow inlet tube and big MAF. They were advertising that piece as "no tune required." WRONG! My car slowed at the dragstrip from 13.0's with the stock stuff down to 13.7's with the C&L. The car was so lean it was pinging for most of the track!

Same is true for axle-back systems. They sound cool and some are lighter than the stock mufflers, so that's a plus. However, MM&FF tested them on the S197 GT last year (quite a few of the popular axle-backs), and found most only gave a couple hp, while many lost hp. Most lost torque (need that back pressure to keep torque in check). So, chalk up the axle-backs as "ear candy" and CAI's as "eye candy."

Now, if you have a heavily modified car, then CAI's and exhaust mods will become necessary and will hold real benefits. But, on a mostly stock car, better to leave the factory plumbing intact.

 

[6773]

When I bought my 07 GT, I started looking at the eye-candy that is CAI. The company I bought my DiabloSport Predator tuner from claimed it was good for up to a 27hp increase. They also sold a package that included the C&L CAI and Predator, and claimed it was good for up to a 31hp increase. That tells me that the CAI was worth 4hp. Yikes, that's a lot of money for 4hp. So I passed on the CAI, and bought just the tuner.

I have thought the same thing but figured I was wrong and everybody buying CAI was right...Think I'll go with just the tuner for now too.

 

[skyhazzard]

I bought the Demolet w/ SCT tuner. I was also a sceptic. 3 Dyno Runs at the local dyno made me a beleiver. $387 for tuner and another $90 for the CAI, I opted for the custom torch red paint and paid 500 for bothe delivered to the door. Just the 93 tune alone provided an additional 14 hp that is $27. 63 per HP. The CAI provided an additional 12 hp, that was $9.41 per HP. These were done in Savannah GA at 84 degrees and DA of +240. The CAI provides a larger Mass Air Opening than stock, providing a simular result as changing the mass air meter on the fox bodies. All in all I am happy with the results.

 

[TGJ]

After reading MM&FF's CAI article about a year ago (they tested a bunch of them on an S197 GT at the dragstrip - the real world dyno) I became very skeptical of CAI's doing anything other than looking cool. Good read that kept me from throwing away a few hundred bucks on a CAI. The only CAI that added any performance above and beyond the tune by itself was the WMS front-mounted ram air unit. MM&FF showed a real improvement in the 1/4 mile with this one, while all the others showed no improvement. If you have to get a CAI, this should be high on your list.

When I bought my 07 GT, I started looking at the eye-candy that is CAI. The company I bought my DiabloSport Predator tuner from claimed it was good for up to a 27hp increase. They also sold a package that included the C&L CAI and Predator, and claimed it was good for up to a 31hp increase. That tells me that the CAI was worth 4hp. Yikes, that's a lot of money for 4hp. So I passed on the CAI, and bought just the tuner.

Now, for those who choose to get the CAI anyway, you have to tune for it or you'll run lean. I did this on my 03 Mach 1. Bought the C&L TrueFlow inlet tube and big MAF. They were advertising that piece as "no tune required." WRONG! My car slowed at the dragstrip from 13.0's with the stock stuff down to 13.7's with the C&L. The car was so lean it was pinging for most of the track!

Same is true for axle-back systems. They sound cool and some are lighter than the stock mufflers, so that's a plus. However, MM&FF tested them on the S197 GT last year (quite a few of the popular axle-backs), and found most only gave a couple hp, while many lost hp. Most lost torque (need that back pressure to keep torque in check). So, chalk up the axle-backs as "ear candy" and CAI's as "eye candy."

Now, if you have a heavily modified car, then CAI's and exhaust mods will become necessary and will hold real benefits. But, on a mostly stock car, better to leave the factory plumbing intact.

I don't trust anything in MM&FF as being accurate at all. There is so much misinformation in that magazine that I don't bother reading it. I knew that the CAI's wouldn't help much in these cars. The only one that I see that will make a difference is the WMS and the one included with the Kenne Bell SC kit. The reason is that they move the air filter to a position where they can make a difference.

Now on to Exhaust, Back pressure is never good in any setup. Yes some exhausts systems will lose power but not because of back pressure. I can see Flowmaster kit losing power because of the muffler construction they use. A kit like these will add another restriction( more back pressure ) in the exhaust.

A kit like Magnaflow won't lose you power but it might shift your power and torque curves. These shifts in the curves may make your peak numbers go down because the exhaust is too efficient for your current mods and they shifted your power curve to beyond where it makes power.

 

[hags1]

After reading MM&FF's CAI article about a year ago (they tested a bunch of them on an S197 GT at the dragstrip - the real world dyno) I became very skeptical of CAI's doing anything other than looking cool. Good read that kept me from throwing away a few hundred bucks on a CAI. The only CAI that added any performance above and beyond the tune by itself was the WMS front-mounted ram air unit. MM&FF showed a real improvement in the 1/4 mile with this one, while all the others showed no improvement. If you have to get a CAI, this should be high on your list.

When I bought my 07 GT, I started looking at the eye-candy that is CAI. The company I bought my DiabloSport Predator tuner from claimed it was good for up to a 27hp increase. They also sold a package that included the C&L CAI and Predator, and claimed it was good for up to a 31hp increase. That tells me that the CAI was worth 4hp. Yikes, that's a lot of money for 4hp. So I passed on the CAI, and bought just the tuner.

I've always wondered about that....what could the guys that do the tunes get out of the stock setup?
I guess I should count myself lucky, or smart.....no, probably just lucky.....I have the WMS system in my car....

hags1

 

[xtweakerx]

come on guys where are all the CAI guys?

this was more of a negative post than positive. lol

Anyone backing the steeda kit?
the C&L? the demolet?

anyone have real dyno numbers etc?

thanks.

I know as of now i rather go with a SCT xcal2 tuner.

 

[TGJ]

come on guys where are all the CAI guys?

this was more of a negative post than positive. lol

Anyone backing the steeda kit?
the C&L? the demolet?

anyone have real dyno numbers etc?

thanks.

I know as of now i rather go with a SCT xcal2 tuner.

If you are going to get a CAI and tune, the best one to get is the WMS CAI and SCT X-Cal 2. http://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/05hvi.htm

It is the only one that will *actually* do anything to help your car.

 

[xtweakerx]

kinda of strange seeing peoples responses today.


when i know first hand of friends with stock new stang w/ just a steeda cai and tune going mid to low 13's.

and people w/ c&l + tune doing the same too.

showing 20-30rwhp.

 

[claytucc3]

You will get a lot of "experts" on here bro......5.0 did a test and said the C&L was the best and all of the other intakem increased horsepower too. I would go more with the one that you think looks the best and for sure get a tuner.......Either way you will be doing good. Like I said before I just like the way the C&L's look. If you open up your exhaust it makes sense to open up your intake flow......

 

[xtweakerx]

lol thanks man.

 

[TGJ]

I have a 1996 Ford Thunderbird that has a 5.0L Big-Bore 2V engine in it. I did a lot of research before that engine got built. I run the factory airbox and filter minus the silencer. The engine is a 10.5:1 Compression ratio and using the FRPP Plastic PI intake. The car is making just under 340 RWHP N/A through a fully built 4R70W and IRS. The car doesn't have Long tube headers( none available to fit it ), Under drive pullies, or an electric water pump and the exhaust is not the best setup. All of those things that I don't have will add power to the car. The setup as it is in a 5 Spd Mustang with a solid axle would be around 370 RWHP. MM&FF told me that my car would make more power with a 5.0L Stroker. In reality, my car is making more power than any 5.0L 2V N/A Stroker that I have seen to date, in fact I haven't seen one within 20 RWHP of what my car has.

Now onto this thread. I can see gains in a tuner that is going from a 87 Octane to 91 Octane pump fuel and I can see those gains at being around 15 - 25 RWHP. That doesn't leave much for a CAI to help. Go pop the hood of your car and look at the airbox. At the front you are going to see a little box pointing to the fender. There you will notice a little hole going to the outside of the car. Now let me you ask this.

How is placing a open air filter to draw cold air out of that same little hole that the factory airbox uses is going to help you? Think about it, there is no way in hell it can. The only gains you might see is after the MAF and using an elbow that is straight, not curved like the stock one is. Even there I am not sure there is a gain to be had.

I already know that adding a more efficient air filter will not help. I have seen a 600 RWHP SCed 4.6 2V mustang using the stock air filter. Adding a K&N and keeping all the oil temperatures the same, the car made less than 1 RWHP more than what it did with stock filter and the car saw no reduction in time during a 1/4 mile pass.

You can do things on the dyno and other little things like adding/remove timing to the stock tune to show big gains with a CAI and tuner. Who pays the advertising in the magazines you read. Is it not the companies making the products that they want you to buy that pays the bills? I am pretty sure it is.

I have looked at CAI's for my car and taking a good look and with what I have researched in the past. The only kit that has any hope of working is the WMS.

It is your money, your car. Do with it as you please. If there is something you like go with it.

 

[chubhunter]

I have a jlt2 with sct. But I'd also have to believe that the CAI is mostly looks. I read quite a bit on the Kenne Bell web site and he convinced me they don't do much if anything. According to this site the Steeda intake was good for a whopping 1 horsepower. Lets face it they are not really COLD air intakes its the same old HOT air from under the hood. The main increase comes from the new better programming.

 

[hags1]

The main increase comes from the new better programming.

So, are there any tuners out there that sell upgrade tunes for the stock setup?

 

[TGJ]

So, are there any tuners out there that sell upgrade tunes for the stock setup?

Pretty much any SCT or DiabloSport tuner can do that...

 

[kooldawg6]

I love the WMS!

I imagine when I get the billet grill which will allow more "cooler" air flow into the front of the car it will help a bit more. The factory grill only has a portion actually open to the radiator. I have thought about taking a dremel to it and cuting more holes, but that is too much work for me to even bother with...

 

[Bones187]

I have a 1996 Ford Thunderbird that has a 5.0L Big-Bore 2V engine in it. I did a lot of research before that engine got built. I run the factory airbox and filter minus the silencer. The engine is a 10.5:1 Compression ratio and using the FRPP Plastic PI intake. The car is making just under 340 RWHP N/A through a fully built 4R70W and IRS. The car doesn't have Long tube headers( none available to fit it ), Under drive pullies, or an electric water pump and the exhaust is not the best setup. All of those things that I don't have will add power to the car. The setup as it is in a 5 Spd Mustang with a solid axle would be around 370 RWHP. MM&FF told me that my car would make more power with a 5.0L Stroker. In reality, my car is making more power than any 5.0L 2V N/A Stroker that I have seen to date, in fact I haven't seen one within 20 RWHP of what my car has.

Now onto this thread. I can see gains in a tuner that is going from a 87 Octane to 91 Octane pump fuel and I can see those gains at being around 15 - 25 RWHP. That doesn't leave much for a CAI to help. Go pop the hood of your car and look at the airbox. At the front you are going to see a little box pointing to the fender. There you will notice a little hole going to the outside of the car. Now let me you ask this.

How is placing a open air filter to draw cold air out of that same little hole that the factory airbox uses is going to help you? Think about it, there is no way in hell it can. The only gains you might see is after the MAF and using an elbow that is straight, not curved like the stock one is. Even there I am not sure there is a gain to be had.

I already know that adding a more efficient air filter will not help. I have seen a 600 RWHP SCed 4.6 2V mustang using the stock air filter. Adding a K&N and keeping all the oil temperatures the same, the car made less than 1 RWHP more than what it did with stock filter and the car saw no reduction in time during a 1/4 mile pass.

You can do things on the dyno and other little things like adding/remove timing to the stock tune to show big gains with a CAI and tuner. Who pays the advertising in the magazines you read. Is it not the companies making the products that they want you to buy that pays the bills? I am pretty sure it is.

I have looked at CAI's for my car and taking a good look and with what I have researched in the past. The only kit that has any hope of working is the WMS.

It is your money, your car. Do with it as you please. If there is something you like go with it.

I think we all know here that CAI is a misnomer. of course there is no true cold air coming in with the new box, but is pulling in more air. Ask the people who try and run CAI alone without tune. Car runs too lean because of increased air flow without increasing fuel. Also he is talking about a S197 stang not a thunderbird or 5.0. These cars are completely redesigned over previous stangs so cannot compare older(pre 05) with new stangs. Well that's my opinion. Search the site you'll come acroos people who tried without tuner and car will get check engine light. That tells me something is wrong and it is the increased air flow. Most tunes alone will give 15-20 rwhp but adding cai will usually get you closer to 30 hp at wheels. Well worth it IMO

 

[Five Oh Brian]

Most S197's with the automatic are getting about 250-255 rwhp all stock. I can't tell you what mine was stock, but I'm putting 278 to the ground now with a Diablo Tuner set for a stock GT with no mods, just they're firm shifting program (which requires 93 octane). That's 23-28 rwhp gain from the tune alone. The only other mod I have is 4.10 gears, and most experts say that more gear will actual lower rwhp #'s even as it improves ET's at the dragstrip (baffles me, but that's what most say).

Now, last time I was at the 1/4 mile (Pacific Raceways), I met up with a fellow S197 GT Automatic owner. We both had stock weight GT's on the stock tires (getting great traction on a VHT prepped track). We both had Diablo Tuners tuned for 93 octane. He had 3.31 gears vs my 4.10's. He had a JLT CAI and Corsa axle-backs vs my stock airbox and stock exhaust. He swore he could "feel" the CAI and axle-backs making much more power than stock. His best ET was 13.66 @ 101 mph, with many 13.7's. My best ET was 13.40 @ almost 103 mph, with mostly 13.4's. So, I had him by .25 second consistently and bettered him by an average of 2 mph through the traps. Same basic cars, same track, same day, same traction, just slightly different mods.