Dyno tuners in Portland

[AllFordPerf]

I think I may have said this before but I feel the need to say it again. The number on a dyno is just a number. If the number goes up you are making more hp and if the number goes down you are making less. The important thing is the air fuel ratio and how it runs at the track. Ultimatly the track is the greatest dyno of all. Also anyone who tunes for max power on the dyno is an idiot as NONE of the dyno loads are equal to that of the road or track. That being said i recommend doing your baseline and tuning pulls all on the same dyno, which ever you choose. I have tuned on several different types of dynos and yes on a Mustang dyno you can change the variables to make the hp and torque read different. Bottom line pick one dyno and one tuner who you trust and stick with them. Thats what's really important.

 

[loud 95]

I think I may have said this before but I feel the need to say it again. The number on a dyno is just a number. If the number goes up you are making more hp and if the number goes down you are making less. The important thing is the air fuel ratio and how it runs at the track. Ultimatly, the track is the greatest dyno of all. Also anyone who tunes for max power on the dyno is an idiot as NONE of the dyno loads are equal to that of the road or track. That being said i recommend doing your baseline and tuning pulls all on the same dyno, which ever you choose. I have tuned on several different types of dynos and yes on a Mustang dyno you can change the variables to make the hp and torque read different. Bottom line pick one dyno and one tuner who you trust and stick with them. Thats what's really important.

Yes, the numbers output by a dyno are just numbers. I also know that the performance on the track is a valid concern for those vehicles whos owners want maximum track performance. In some cases, you will find that max power and lowest ET do not have a direct correlation, as I am sure you know. In these situations, you are right that the track is the "best dyno of all."

You are also correct that the load simulation offered by any friction brake dyno is not a completely accurate representation of what a vehicle experiences on the road. However, it is the best technology available currently. In addition, the difference between road and friction brake dyno, in my opinion, is negligable in terms of the longevity/performance/safety/reliability of the tune. I, too, have tuned on several different dynos and can vouch for this (as I am sure you can). On a base model dynojet, however, this can be a different story.

As far as those who tune for max power on dynos being idiots, I feel I should at least qualify this statement. In my opinion, those who tune for max power on a dyno with no resistance capability are misguided and may fall into the idiot category. Those who tune for max power on a dyno with some sort of resistance capability are good to go. As we agree, this may not be completely ideal, but it is the best and only option for max power tuning.
If you tune for MAX POWER anywhere other then a dyno with resistance capability, you are an idiot. Where else are you going to tune for max power? On the road? Oh wait, you have no way to view or datalog horsepower and torque readings.

 

[hamidlmt]

So true... dyno numbers are for bragging rights. The performance at the track matters far more to me.

It would be fun to compare Mustang Dyno numbers and Dynojet numbers.

 

[AllFordPerf]

Where else are you going to tune for max power? On the road? Oh wait, you have no way to view or datalog horsepower and torque readings.

I have found that it's best to get the a/f correct on the dyno and get the timing close but safe. For cars needing every last ounce of hp I then make some track pulls and sneek up on the timing one degree at a time checking plugs after each change for signs of detonation. You can do this at the race track or on a " closed street " to find where the motor is most happy. If you have a consistant car at the track you can tell by the mph if your making a positive change. I have seen some cars that are load affected like turbo cars change boost between the load dyno and the street, mine included. Not so much a supercharger thing but definatly a turbo thing. There is a guy at pir who runs a turbo mini van. When he tuned on the dyno no knock on the knock sensor. When he went to the track the knock sensor went nuts. Also some vehicles like ford trucks have a weird pcm that is very load dependant. After tuning one such truck to perfection on a load dyno it ran like crap on the street. Load is a good thing but nothing beats real world driving conditions. Now that being said most people do not have the patience to tune that way and not all vehicles need to be tuned that way. Obviously for a hci car or stock motor with a vortech that would be overkill. But for anything with a power adder making over 450hp it sure never hurts to pull some plugs. If you get a good tuner who has tuned quite a few cars then they will know what the limits of each engine are and what is safe for the street. I was probably out of line saying that anyone tuning for max power on the dyno is an idiot. It would have been more PC to say that they are asking for trouble. Sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[saleenster]

Where else are you going to tune for max power? On the road? Oh wait, you have no way to view or datalog horsepower and torque readings.

I have found that it's best to get the a/f correct on the dyno and get the timing close but safe. For cars needing every last ounce of hp I then make some track pulls and sneek up on the timing one degree at a time checking plugs after each change for signs of detonation. You can do this at the race track or on a " closed street " to find where the motor is most happy. If you have a consistant car at the track you can tell by the mph if your making a positive change. I have seen some cars that are load affected like turbo cars change boost between the load dyno and the street, mine included. Not so much a supercharger thing but definatly a turbo thing. There is a guy at pir who runs a turbo mini van. When he tuned on the dyno no knock on the knock sensor. When he went to the track the knock sensor went nuts. Also some vehicles like ford trucks have a weird pcm that is very load dependant. After tuning one such truck to perfection on a load dyno it ran like crap on the street. Load is a good thing but nothing beats real world driving conditions. Now that being said most people do not have the patience to tune that way and not all vehicles need to be tuned that way. Obviously for a hci car or stock motor with a vortech that would be overkill. But for anything with a power adder making over 450hp it sure never hurts to pull some plugs. If you get a good tuner who has tuned quite a few cars then they will know what the limits of each engine are and what is safe for the street. I was probably out of line saying that anyone tuning for max power on the dyno is an idiot. It would have been more PC to say that they are asking for trouble. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Didn't offend me. Most people are idiots!

I'm gonna hire you to tune my Z when its ready as well

 

[loud 95]

I definitely agree with you on pulling plugs when mapping ignition timing. Whether on the dyno or at the track, it is just too difficult to detect knock when it occurs. As far as utilizing knock sensors on modified vehicles, I pretty much always turn them off. I have seen the slightest engine mods throw off the harmonics to the point that the sensor has become a distractor in the tuning process. Though, I do understand your use of the minivan and your fox as examples of the differences between the street and dyno.
While there may be boost differences in some cases between the dyno and track, this should not effect the way the car runs, if it has been completely mapped.
As far as offending anyone, I don't think you did.

Where else are you going to tune for max power? On the road? Oh wait, you have no way to view or datalog horsepower and torque readings.

I have found that it's best to get the a/f correct on the dyno and get the timing close but safe. For cars needing every last ounce of hp I then make some track pulls and sneek up on the timing one degree at a time checking plugs after each change for signs of detonation. You can do this at the race track or on a " closed street " to find where the motor is most happy. If you have a consistant car at the track you can tell by the mph if your making a positive change. I have seen some cars that are load affected like turbo cars change boost between the load dyno and the street, mine included. Not so much a supercharger thing but definatly a turbo thing. There is a guy at pir who runs a turbo mini van. When he tuned on the dyno no knock on the knock sensor. When he went to the track the knock sensor went nuts. Also some vehicles like ford trucks have a weird pcm that is very load dependant. After tuning one such truck to perfection on a load dyno it ran like crap on the street. Load is a good thing but nothing beats real world driving conditions. Now that being said most people do not have the patience to tune that way and not all vehicles need to be tuned that way. Obviously for a hci car or stock motor with a vortech that would be overkill. But for anything with a power adder making over 450hp it sure never hurts to pull some plugs. If you get a good tuner who has tuned quite a few cars then they will know what the limits of each engine are and what is safe for the street. I was probably out of line saying that anyone tuning for max power on the dyno is an idiot. It would have been more PC to say that they are asking for trouble. Sorry if I offended anyone.