Fox Shock Choices???????????

[Gearbanger 101]

Rim size doesnt matter just the overall size of the tire as well as your backspacing

Not necessarily true. And 18" wheel with the same width and backspacing will have more clearance than a 17" wheel simply because it moves the edge of the wheel that much further away from the shock. Also, some wheels are a little beefier on the back half than others. Tires will also bulge more on the sidewall on a shorter rim than they will on a taller rim with a shorter aspect ratio.

 

[1200gt]

I would advise against using alum CC plates, especially with coilovers. They are simply not strong enough and will bend and distort. That is why MM does not make them in aluminum. Over the years on my cars and in my research I would look at the MM, Team Z, or Racecraft CC plates in that order. MM parts may be more expensive, but IMO they are the top quality and offer superior performance.

Also, I would suggest a google on issues with UPR coilovers before you buy them. Their pieces tend to be one size fits all shock, resulting in clunking and rattling noises. Other manufacturers like MM make their coilovers for specific shocks. Again, you get what you pay for.

4-Bolt CC Plates?
Funny, I went over to my storage to take a look at my stock of slated upgrade parts, especially to look at my CC plates again: I actually have UPR CC Plates. Apparently I bought them a while back and thought I had gotten BBK pieces.

I have been looking around for CCplates and noticed that there are 4-bolt and 3-bolt style CC Plates, anybody know what the advantages and are for going to 4-bolt. (maybe you can't get 4-bolt for older models) I see the part numbers are listed as 79-89 and 90-93. I guess that is due to Ford's changes in the Shock Tower Construction over the years....

 

[MFE92]

79-89 and 90-93 are 3-bolt plates, the difference is how the holes are placed, because Ford changed them over the years. But you want 4-bolt plates for 94+ cars because on those cars, the strut hole falls outside the bolt hole triangle and you want the 4th one for support.

 

[Sharad]

4-Bolt CC Plates?
Funny, I went over to my storage to take a look at my stock of slated upgrade parts, especially to look at my CC plates again: I actually have UPR CC Plates. Apparently I bought them a while back and thought I had gotten BBK pieces.

I have been looking around for CCplates and noticed that there are 4-bolt and 3-bolt style CC Plates, anybody know what the advantages and are for going to 4-bolt. (maybe you can't get 4-bolt for older models) I see the part numbers are listed as 79-89 and 90-93. I guess that is due to Ford's changes in the Shock Tower Construction over the years....

"They" say you need four bolt plates for coilovers with high spring rates. Think about it- with the spring on the strut, the CC-plate is holding up all of that corner's weight. That said, over the past oh, I don't know... 20 years, our customers have put UPR CC-plates through hell and back, and they don't fail. The worst damage I've ever seen is when customers come down from a straight up and down all four tires off the ground wheelie and the front end comes crashing down (literally). This will sometimes bend the plate. UPR's Lifetime Guarantee means we send out a new plate. Win.

 

[1200gt]

"They" say you need four bolt plates for coilovers with high spring rates. Think about it- with the spring on the strut, the CC-plate is holding up all of that corner's weight. That said, over the past oh, I don't know... 20 years, our customers have put UPR CC-plates through hell and back, and they don't fail. The worst damage I've ever seen is when customers come down from a straight up and down all four tires off the ground wheelie and the front end comes crashing down (literally). This will sometimes bend the plate. UPR's Lifetime Guarantee means we send out a new plate. Win.

Thanks Sharad for your reply. I appreciate hearing your responses to various questions about products. Your info about four-bolt CC plates for cars with coilovers makes sense.

I had been putting my small engineering mind to thought on whether to use coilovers and had decided not to take the risk on my fulltime street car. I discerned that there is a lot of load that Ford did not design into the Foxbody Strut Tower that is being realized while running coilovers that is normally absorbed and spread out across the K-member. I'm no engineer but I think the coilovers focus the forces more liner and up through the Strut Tower. I concluded that at a minimum, a strut tower brace would be a must if running coilovers, and probably not enough if the car is run up in the northern states where there's potholes in the roads can suck up a VW.

That said, I can see where the benefit of a four-hole CC plate setup would further spread the loads across the strut tower surface.

Where it comes to UPR CC Plates, I have seen more than a few of the cars run out of that stable, and have seen many front wheels catch air while crossing the beams at Moroso, now PBIR, I believe is the acronym. I gues that would be a good enough test to see if they hold up to the rigors of South Florida street driving....

I'd love to hear what other may think about Coilovers and CC Plates, on street use cars.

 

[srtthis]

"They" say you need four bolt plates for coilovers with high spring rates. Think about it- with the spring on the strut, the CC-plate is holding up all of that corner's weight. That said, over the past oh, I don't know... 20 years, our customers have put UPR CC-plates through hell and back, and they don't fail. The worst damage I've ever seen is when customers come down from a straight up and down all four tires off the ground wheelie and the front end comes crashing down (literally). This will sometimes bend the plate. UPR's Lifetime Guarantee means we send out a new plate. Win.

i bent my steel plate ones on the street bottoming the shock out and you guys covered it with out an issue! even upgraded me to the aluminums!

TEAMUPRTTFMF!

 

[1200gt]

Not necessarily true. And 18" wheel with the same width and backspacing will have more clearance than a 17" wheel simply because it moves the edge of the wheel that much further away from the shock. Also, some wheels are a little beefier on the back half than others. Tires will also bulge more on the sidewall on a shorter rim than they will on a taller rim with a shorter aspect ratio.

This doe make sense... I never considered that the larger the dia of the wheel the further it will move away from the shock because of the angulation of the strut.

But it is close and an 18" rim is questionable. Def need some massaging

Now the problem with the 18" comes into play with interference at the fender wells and at the front fender lip, at least I'd say on the 79 to 89 fendered cars.

The stock dia for tire/wheel on my 1986 GT is: 25.6" using the OEM 225/60/15's.

 

[A5literMan]

This doe make sense... I never considered that the larger the dia of the wheel the further it will move away from the shock because of the angulation of the strut.




Now the problem with the 18" comes into play with interference at the fender wells and at the front fender lip, at least I'd say on the 79 to 89 fendered cars.

The stock dia for tire/wheel on my 1986 GT is: 25.6" using the OEM 225/60/15's.

I'll measure mine when I get a chance to give you an idea.

 

[1200gt]

I'll measure mine when I get a chance to give you an idea.

Thanks, I'd love to know what yours measure out to.....

 

[flstang65]

EVERY Mustang I have ever owned or work on at the shop (street or track)gets 4 bolt caster and camber plates for the following reasons; added strength and, mostly, for better adjust-ability on the alignment. I always use UPR because of the warranty and the fact I have all of their parts next day.

 

[1200gt]

EVERY Mustang I have ever owned or work on at the shop (street or track)gets 4 bolt caster and camber plates for the following reasons; added strength and, mostly, for better adjust-ability on the alignment. I always use UPR because of the warranty and the fact I have all of their parts next day.

That's good to hear. Now, as it comes to better adjustability with the 4 bolt CC Plates, do you thinks that is true across the board with all of the Foxbody cars? In particular, the 86GT. I happen to have this year and am installing SN95 Brake upgrades with new Tokico blues. However, I am retaining the stock K-member which I understand sits more narrow between the strut towers than the 90-93 yr fox cars.

My thought is: I'll need as much adjustability as possible. and you are the first to mention an adjustability superiority of the 4 bolt CC Plates over the 3 bolts.

 

[MFE92]

You'll run out of adjustability in the shock tower itself before you run out of it with the best 3-bolt plates for a foxbody. It's not unusual to have to grind the strut hole bigger to get as much caster and/or camber as some people want to get.

 

[J&M Products]

The 4 bolt camber plates are only for the SN95 cars. With the strut bearing mounted between the factory mounting bolts on the FOX body cars you don't see the cantilever leverage as seen on the SN95 cars. With the fox body cars you want to use a camber plate that is side specific and doesn't have the large center slot which makes them universal so they can be used on either side of the car. The only plates that are side specific are ours and mm plates that I'm aware of. You also want to make sure they are using a good quality non imported bearing and offer a lifetime warranty on everything including the bearing.

 

[1200gt]

The 4 bolt camber plates are only for the SN95 cars. With the strut bearing mounted between the factory mounting bolts on the FOX body cars you don't see the cantilever leverage as seen on the SN95 cars. With the fox body cars you want to use a camber plate that is side specific and doesn't have the large center slot which makes them universal so they can be used on either side of the car. The only plates that are side specific are ours and mm plates that I'm aware of. You also want to make sure they are using a good quality non imported bearing and offer a lifetime warranty on everything including the bearing.

Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Info from a supplier! lol

Thanks for that info. It clears up a lot of the questions that I had about the subject. I have been seeing in the adv. pictures of the 4 bolt cc plates within the 79 -89 year ads. It became confusing.

I was considering your product within my searches and would like to know if J&M Products also has the same lifetime warranty? If so that may make my decision a lot easier to choose from.

I have one more question that I hope you can answer and you eluded to its point: Why do the SN95 cars use the 4bolt cc plate and the fox car do not. ( I will assume it's because the strut tower surface is not as broad on the fox...)


Thanks again for your valuable responses.

 

[MFE92]

Like I said....

you want 4-bolt plates for 94+ cars because on those cars, the strut hole falls outside the bolt hole triangle and you want the 4th one for support.

On fox body cars, the strut hole is contained in the space of the triangle described by the 3 bolt holes. On SN95 cars, the hole falls outside that space, meaning it can apply a hell of a lot of leverage to the plate unless a 4th bolt is added that contains it.

 

[J&M Products]

Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Info from a supplier! lol

Thanks for that info. It clears up a lot of the questions that I had about the subject. I have been seeing in the adv. pictures of the 4 bolt cc plates within the 79 -89 year ads. It became confusing.

I was considering your product within my searches and would like to know if J&M Products also has the same lifetime warranty? If so that may make my decision a lot easier to choose from.

I have one more question that I hope you can answer and you eluded to its point: Why do the SN95 cars use the 4bolt cc plate and the fox car do not. ( I will assume it's because the strut tower surface is not as broad on the fox...)


Thanks again for your valuable responses.

We were the original manufacture to offer the lifetime warranty when we came out with these many years ago with everyone else following to keep up. All of our camber plates from 79-04 are now coming with a one piece chrome-moly forged bearing cup as well. Nothing that takes any sort of shock or spring loading is welded with our camber plates.

MFE92 answered the other question about the reason the 4th bolt is needed on the SN95 cars.

 

[A5literMan]

Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Info from a supplier! lol

Thanks for that info. It clears up a lot of the questions that I had about the subject. I have been seeing in the adv. pictures of the 4 bolt cc plates within the 79 -89 year ads. It became confusing.

I was considering your product within my searches and would like to know if J&M Products also has the same lifetime warranty? If so that may make my decision a lot easier to choose from.

I have one more question that I hope you can answer and you eluded to its point: Why do the SN95 cars use the 4bolt cc plate and the fox car do not. ( I will assume it's because the strut tower surface is not as broad on the fox...)


Thanks again for your valuable responses.

This doe make sense... I never considered that the larger the dia of the wheel the further it will move away from the shock because of the angulation of the strut.




Now the problem with the 18" comes into play with interference at the fender wells and at the front fender lip, at least I'd say on the 79 to 89 fendered cars.

The stock dia for tire/wheel on my 1986 GT is: 25.6" using the OEM 225/60/15's.

I've been busy lately so haven't been out to measure it yet but should get a chance this weekend

 

[1200gt]

I've been busy lately so haven't been out to measure it yet but should get a chance this weekend

I appreciate it. I've been on the hunt for a set of temp wheels and tire to throw on it in order to get my subs welded and to be able to roll it in and out of the garage. I still have a few ponys on it and I believe one 10 hole that I had left over from stock days. That's the hold up now for the actual brake conversion. All the other parts are ready to go.

I sure hope the Drift will fit, if not I'll have to go to plan B.

Thanks again...

 

[A5literMan]

I appreciate it. I've been on the hunt for a set of temp wheels and tire to throw on it in order to get my subs welded and to be able to roll it in and out of the garage. I still have a few ponys on it and I believe one 10 hole that I had left over from stock days. That's the hold up now for the actual brake conversion. All the other parts are ready to go.

I sure hope the Drift will fit, if not I'll have to go to plan B.

Thanks again...

Man I forgot about this sorry. Sounds like a nice setup you're going with

 

[1200gt]

We were the original manufacture to offer the lifetime warranty when we came out with these many years ago with everyone else following to keep up. All of our camber plates from 79-04 are now coming with a one piece chrome-moly forged bearing cup as well. Nothing that takes any sort of shock or spring loading is welded with our camber plates.

MFE92 answered the other question about the reason the 4th bolt is needed on the SN95 cars.

Thanks for responding again. I kinda figured your product was top quality being that LMR is stocking them. I trust that company where it comes to offering products that are structurally sound. The lifetime warranty on a product is a big lure for me. IMO it says a manufacturer has confidence that their product will stand up to the task; I know this isn't always the case...

Are you main CC Plates painted steel or aluminum?

One other question that I am hearing ambiguous responses to, though I see you have the Spherical Bushing on your product, is whether to run Poly Strut Bushings. Some say do-not run them on a street car and some say it's okay. I have heard comments about struts breaking as a result of the use of Poly Strut Bushings. I am no engineer, but I can glean that the Spherical Bearing will allow articulation 360degrees without bind, but wonder if increased noise will be a trade-off. Could the rigidity of a poly bushing limit necessary free articulation?

Noise is a concern for me, and not so much the need to carve corners as we have none hear in South Florida except the occasional on or off ramps.

What are your thoughts and recommendations?