Progress Thread Nicholase "lights out" build- TKX install

[nicholase]

Got around to doing a little data logging today. I'm still feeling pretty clumsy with the software but the more I dig in the more I remember how to get around in there.

I made a few more changes over the last few days to the tune. I'm feeling pretty good about it. Pulled a few plugs and all looks well.

I'm sure most dataloggers are similar. I pulled up whatever sensor I wanted to look at and hit record. They can be added or removed when you're going over a recording. It looks like alot

If I zoom in its easier to find a particular spot.

Even though i can't see the graph the data block tracks the cursor.

I found it interesting the ACT reading comes down under boost. I figured the compressed air would raise it. It must get heat soaked when it doesn't have much air flow. It was around 170° just cruising around and pulled down in the 150°'s under boost. ECT looks good. Pulls up a touch at the end of a run but then immediately drops to normal operating temp.

I have a MAP sensor coming. It can be used a few different ways. Primary I just want it so I can data log actual boost PSI. I think my timing is a little conservative. I want to be able to cross refrence actual boost PSI with the load axis. So the MAP will add some more data to look at.

The plan is to keep things conservative and learn my way around the software. Do a bunch of research on spark tuning and when I feel i have a competent plan I'll call around and schedule a dyno session.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Where is the ACT mounted?

 

[nicholase]

Normal spot. Intake runner.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I bet you will get more consistent temps if you move it to just downstream of the MAF. The 2000 GT MAF that I use on my Coupe has the IAT in the MAF. When I bought the MSPnP Pro for my car they said I should use that one vs the ACT in the #5 intake runner.

 

[nicholase]

I get the train of thought. I'd have to have it after the SC outlet to account for the heat generated by that, but yeah, that might be something to consider.

 

[General karthief]

Looks like my EKG while talking to an insurance guy

 

[nicholase]

Dyno day Friday May 29th, I have a serious tuner helping me.

Anyone have any guesses?

-Stock block 60k miles
-ARP head suds and fasteners throughout
-Trick Flow 170cc TW heads
-Trick Flow TFS1 cam & 1.6 rockers
-Trick Flow track heat intake
-Ford Performance M-6500-R302H lifters
-Ford Motorsporst SVO M-6268-A302 timing set
-75 mm Accufab TB
-80 mm ProM MAF
-ProM engine management tuned by Doug Vanstrom
-Zeitronix wideband controller L&R banks
-Bosch 4.9 widebands
-Factory distributor locked out at 0° and modded for crank trigger ignition
-Ford ignition coil, cap and rotor
-Livewire plug wires
-Autolite 3923 gapped @.035
-Vortech V3 Herritage gear set
-3.12 pulley
-10.7 PSI
-Anderson powerpipe
-Aeromotive 12347 fuel filter
-Aeromotove 13136 regulator
-Aeromotove stealth 18638 fuel pump hanger
-Walbro 255lph GS340 pump
-Fragolia 6000 PTFE -6an lines + fittings throughout
-10 gauge power and ground fuel pump wiring
-Anderson Motorsports fuel rails
-Deatchwerks 550cc injectors
-JBA shorty headers JetHot coated in and out
-Bassani X pipe with bullet cats
-Flowmaster 2½ American Thunder w super 44's JetHot coated in and out
-UPR 5050 catch can vented at 1 psi crankcase pressure
-Melling 10687 cast iron oil pump w/ ARP drive
-Ford Performance billet flywheel
-McLeod RST Twin Disc clutch
-Ford Performance aluminum driveshaft
-Ford Performamce 3.55's
-Rebuilt 8.8 w/ Moser Axles and Ford Performance carbon fiber trac lok



The guy helping me tunes cars for the big dollar 1000 hp builds around here. He's a fox guy too and has an 84 GT that runs 3.90's in the ⅛. I'm glad he's taking the time to help me with my little project.

 

[gkomo]

454/486

 

[Noobz347]

454/486

Ha-ha-haa... Wrong supercharger

I'm going to inverse those numbers:

486/454 I bet an internet cookie that I'm closer.

 

[nicholase]

Both you guys are higher than I was thinking, but I'd take it! I was figuring more around 420/400.

 

[nicholase]

This weekend is about getting ready for the dyno session next Friday. I mentioned wanting to add a MAP sensor to my setup. The sensor can be used two ways. I want it so I can monitor boost in a datalog. Alternatively it can be set up to pull spark advance per # of boost, kinda old school which I doubt we'll be doing, but it's an option.

The MAP is option for the engine management, but without any support it takes some detective work to figure out which one to get and how to make sure it's wired correctly so I don't damage anything.

ProM states the PCM is calibrated to run on a 3 bar MAP sensor. There are lots of different style sensors and I don't know exactly which one they specced to sell for the kit. I did some digging and found an old instructional video that had a brief image of the sensor. I screen shot it and did some shopping. The closest one I could find is a Holley 554-107.

It's not plug and play. The connectors are different. So I need to change the plug and also wire it correctly. It did come with a.... cough cough.... GM style weather pack connector and pins, so I'll crimp and solder them in.

This is a 3 wire 0v-5v sensor. So one wire will be 5v refrence, one wire is ground, and the third will be the signal to the PCM of what the sensor is actually reading. To figure what wire is what on the vehicle side I enabled the sensor in the tune so it's active and will send power to it. Then with the key on I check for power and ground at the plug.

Grey Ground
Brown
Orange 5v

This tells me the brown wire is the signal wire. So I did some research and found the wiring details for the Holley sensor. The MAP sensor has lettered terminals A,B,C. Holley states:
A Ground
B Signal
C 5V Reference

This is the wiring schematic I found for a TermX using this sensor. The wire colors and PCM pin numbers are all different of course but it links the pins A,B,C to the function.
A18 – Sensor Ground
A23 – MAP Sensor Signal
A26 – Sensor +5V Reference Out

So I wired up the new vehicle side plug.
A Grey
B Brown
C Orange

With the sensor electrically connected and the key on engine off I checked the barometric reading in the software and compared it to a local barometric tracker. Its reading properly.

Then I hooked up my hand held vacuum pump and applied vacuum and pressure to the sensor and watched the fluctuations in the variables of the tune. It's tracking my hand pump and working correctly.

I found out I can change the face of the guages to a bunch of colors and choose different styles. Not really important, but kinda neat.

Remaining tasks to do before mext Friday:
-Verify timing
-Vacuum line once over
-Dump catch can
-Change oil
-Load 2 new tune slots for Tuner and get some miles on each slot to establish fuel and idle adaptives.

 

[nicholase]

Some more ramblings.....

Next up is to verify my base timing. My setup uses a crank sensor. What I like about this is the PIP is no longer used as a combination cam / crank sensor. It's only used as a cam sensor to identify the compression stroke. So even cheap a$$ parts store PIP's are supposed to work fine with this setup because it isnt tasked with much critical info. It just needs to see one tooth pass on each rotation. It also doesn't use the TFI. So I don't have to worry about those failures. But it is a little complex to set up. The distributor is locked down at exactly 0°. All timing changes come from the PCM, so my base spark table represents total timing. Not advance added to the typical 10° base.

Now that I'm getting more familiar with the software I've figured out a few things. I wanted to make sure the timing my PCM is commanding is what is actually what is happening. I did this once already, but after doing some data logging I was comparing my base spark to the spark advance. This got me thinking, last time I used the base spark table with the current operating point function checked.

Heres an example of the base spark vs spark advance. Base spark is what my timing table suggests. Spark advance is what the PCM is actually adjusting it to based on feedback from ECT, ACT, and other variables. The blue line is base, the yellow line is real time actual timing.

There's inly about 3/4° difference the spot I'm hovering over but there are areas with much larger deviations. So I wanted to double check I had this right.

I pulled up the base and advance in a variable list. At idle the spark table is set to 30°, but the PCM is using timing to control idle as well as the IAC. The difference is evident here.

So I held it off idle and observed. The actual advance kicks up to 30° and matches the base table. With no load or changing parameters it stays totally steady. So I put my timing light on the balancer and read 30°.

Becasue the distributor is locked down at 0° the physical position of the crank sensor sets the base timing. If it was off a little it can be fine tuned in the software.

To experiment, I pulled up the crank position sensor calibration.

A value of 680.0 would represent a perfectly adjusted crank position sensor. Changing the 680° value up by one would advance the actual timing by 1°. So I did and saved the change. Then checked my timing at the balancer and it was now 31°. I lowered the valve to 679° and re checked, now it reads 29° on the balancer. So it's all working as it should. The instructions mention the fine trimmer can be used for values up to 5° either way to compensate for a crank sensor not physically perfectly aligned. Anything greater than that the actual crank sensor would need to be adjusted.

I also pulled up the current operating table on the base spark table that I used last time to veriy base timing and checked it against the spark advance variable and they match. So either way is fine. Now it's triple checked lol.

Then a fresh oil change.

Getting excited about the dyno tune Friday. This should be awesome.

 

[gkomo]

Can’t wait to see some numbers!

 

[nicholase]

Getting stuff ready and packed up for Friday. I got a few different pullies, an extra SC belt, a timing light, and a very basic hand tool kit. He said to bring a few sets of plugs becasue he likes to make the final few pulls on new plugs and read them. That shouldn't be a problem lol.

I've also been trying to find a better way to make changes in the tune without going through the entire process to save them. Every change I make won't actually come on line until I shut off the car, save to tune, key on, write to PCM, then start it back up to see the change. I found when I pull up a spark or fuel table there is a tab at the top of the page labled "refrence page". I clicked on it and it switched to "working page". When its enabled a change can be made to the table in real time and immediately executed. I made a few changes to the spark table and then checked with my timing light. Sure enough it works. This is gonna save a bunch of time Friday.

He's not at all familiar with the system so I'll be doing most of the navigation and editing. I'm getting the hang of it pretty well now.

Hopefully the oil stays in the pan and the parts inside of it

 

[91AOD5.0LX]

Getting stuff ready and packed up for Friday.

I’m excited for you!!!!! Good luck and enjoy the day my friend. Looking forward to the after-action report.

 

[nicholase]

Hey man, thanks so much for this.

Looks like you’re upstate NY - you could hit up Doug Vanstrom for Holley tuning....

I met Doug today at Spooling Up Performace for a dyno tune. He's a fantastic human being. Great dude and super knowledgeable and willing to share / teach. I picked up a ton from him today. Best of all he's a straight up Fox guy.

Little tease below. Doug in the car. Shop owner taping in background so expect to see something about it on Facebook / YouTube.


Doug was really impressed. His Fox love came through in big ways. He did a initial pull to 5k and I heard him yelling from in the car "Not bad! NOT BAD AT ALL!".

Super awesome day

 

[nicholase]

So, this was my first time on a dyno with something I built. Just to walk you guys through it that are waiting for that day, or dreaming of when your project gets to that point.... it's worth it. Keep going.

It was an awesome feeling so I wanted to share my experience. I had butterfly's all morning. I got up at 5am and was pre gapping plugs nervously. When I showed up and was watching them strap it down it was an awesome , yet fearful experience. In one way I was super stoked. Another I worried something I did would fail and it would all be destroyed. So yeah. Nervous as hell.

Doug was totally awesome. He let me do all the computer work as far as pulling up info for data logging, and editing, saving and what not. It was awesome to have that experience in my ear, but yet also actively participating. He was just spewing knowledge and I was trying to soak it all up. After the first few passes he said it was the smoothest pulling lower power Fox he's come across. Keep in mind he's used to 1300 hp - 2000 hp rockets. The shop owner kept saying how efficient it sounded. Doug mentioned how hard it hit the dyno, he said some lower powered cars take forever to get up to RPM under dyno load, I think "spicy" was the word he used. Overall we were all pretty impressed with the little 302 from my garage Frankenshop.


Put on your headphones.



That's just music. If you don't like that you just ain't right lol. That pull was was one of the last ones, and was after Doug added some spark and we started working up from my conservative (non professional) tune. I think it was to 6,000 rpm. I'm not gonna lie, I was really, really nervous after seeing the numbers we were working with. Inside I was excited, and also half expecting a bang and rush of oil from under the car.

This is what we got for the final tune.

Then we let it cool a touch, checked the plugs, and did a quick follow up pull. He said if it's consistent then he'll he happy and call it a day. This is the overlay of the last to back to back runs. Just about perfectly repeatable.

I saw 10.7 PSI on the data log. I listed my combo above. Its really basic setup with quality supporting mods and a good tune. He said he could add more, but didn't want to break it lol. So if anyone wants to build a block breaker, I have the recipe lol.

(I edited and added a few more details to Post #507 about my combo so all the info is in the same spot.)

Before someone mentions "stock block" fear mongering.... I'm aware. If it breaks it will be built better and badder


Here's a pretty awesome video the shop did.

 

[91AOD5.0LX]

You did it!!!!! Straight up @nicholase!!! When the lights go out!!! lol Love it all man! Your build from day one and todays dyno day with fantastic numbers and videos!!! Hell of a day!
Congratulations on all that you accomplished and today’s success!!! I certainly look forward to reading and seeing what’s next from your garage and your brain with this car or another.
Thanks so much for sharing all this. Awesome knowledge you shared!

 

[gkomo]

Congrats man! Both on the getting through the build process and seeing your efforts come to fruition. Those are some stout numbers!

I can tell how pumped you through your post writing, and it is well deserved.

 

[nicholase]

You did it!!!!! Straight up @nicholase!!! When the lights go out!!! lol Love it all man! Your build from day one and todays dyno day with fantastic numbers and videos!!! Hell of a day!
Congratulations on all that you accomplished and today’s success!!! I certainly look forward to reading and seeing what’s next from your garage and your brain with this car or another.
Thanks so much for sharing all this. Awesome knowledge you shared!

Thanks so much Brian. Always look forward to your kind comments. It was an awesome day. This hobby has ups and downs. Highs and lows. When it all comes together if the highs outweighed the lows you're doing alright. Today I'm doing alright!

Congrats man! Both on the getting through the build process and seeing your efforts come to fruition. Those are some stout numbers!

I can tell how pumped you through your post writing, and it is well deserved.

Well, we're not through it yet! I'm fairly concerned on how spectacularly the T5 could fail. Don't want my floorpan torn up, or me lol. So the TKX will be happening soon. All of the parts are here other than the trans. Just wanted to get through today before I ordered it.

Then the interior for a winter project. So more to come for sure.