1st time at the track

o0Dan0o · Apr 23, 2008

Well, I went to the track and had a fairly horrible time of it.

My buddy with his 350Z and I went, and we both struggled. This was my first time ever to do a proper drag race, so I have no problem saying I'm probably not terribly good at it. My two best times:

Bone stock 08 manual with 3.31 and stock 17's.
Reaction - .7327 - .8286
60 - 2.1878 - 2.3950
330 - 6.1249 - 6.2959
1/8 ET - 9.3314 - 9.4845
1/8 MPH - 74.91 - 75.83
1000 ET - 12.1302 - 12.2473
1/4 ET - 14.5444 - 14.4556
1/4 MPH - 97.59 - 98.73

Traction off the line wasn't an issue, wheel hop was. I'd either bog or had enough wheel hop to just short shift it and kill the run. The fast time was with just a bit of wheel hop but not enough for me to take my foot out. I was spinning into second fairly well, probably should have stopped power shifting it, and a bit into third as well though not near as much. I was also short shifting it a bit, shifting at 6k to avoid the rev limiter.

My question is about the trap speeds, they seem to be at least a few MPH lower than I should be seeing. Any thoughts? The last 60 seemed not horrible, and with LCAs to take care of the wheel hop I'm sure I could get that lower. Just concerned that the car might be low on power...
Dan

P.S. Full weight car with nothing removed, 3/4 tank of gas and 180lb driver.

Fourth Horseman · Apr 23, 2008

I may get lit up for saying this, but considering you're bone stock and it was your first time at the track I don't think those times are terrible. You've got work to do, sure, but that's what it's all about, man: learning and having fun. If you accomplished both those points then it was a good night.

o0Dan0o · Apr 23, 2008

To be honest, I'm really not into drag racing, I prefer road racing but that's not worth the risk in a daily driver so I'm going to do a lot of auto-x with this car. Drag racing is more of a benchmarking tool for power mods, which is why I'm concerned about trap speeds. My traps varied by about 2 mph, so I know driving can affect that a lot. I'm just wondering what ya'll think.
Dan

Redfire 05 · Apr 23, 2008

What altitude are you at? If you are at sea level that trap speed is low, but if you are at high altitude it looks appropriate. A car looses about 4% power for every 1000 ft in altitude above sea level, because the air is less dense. If you want to get really technical you can calculate your density altitude (or relative altitude) based on your altitude and the weather conditions the day you ran. When my car was stock + a K&N filter I ran only 98 mph to, but the density altitude here in the desert is around 5100 ft. Had the run been at sea level the mph would have been ~ 102. You can use an online estimator to calculate your density altitude, and use the NHRA conversion chart to adjust your trap speed and times.

o0Dan0o · Apr 23, 2008

Roughly sea level, in San Antonio, thats a few hundred feet above. Fairly cool night as well, in the 80's.
Dan

Redfire 05 · Apr 24, 2008

Based on the conditions in San Antonio now (from weather.com)
Temperature of 74 degrees
Barometric Pressure of 29.86 inches hg
Relative Humidity at 73%

Those conditions add 1307 ft of density altitude. It doesn't make a huge difference, depending on your actual altitude about 1-1.5 mph in trap speed.

Although each of the components in the calculation has a huge effect temperature is a major component (especially in Texas because it is always hot) because cooler air is more dense and good for more power, but hot air is less dense and your car will be down on power. If you run your car during the early spring or on a cold night when temps are in the 50's your times will be better because the density altitude will be closer to sea level.

o0Dan0o · Apr 24, 2008

It was a bit warmer when I was there, about 3-4 hours ago. Probably about the same humidity. But that could just be grabbing...

Thanks for that though, I appreciate it. If that's right, I could around the 100 MPH mark give a take a few for driving...

belzebub2u · Apr 24, 2008

trust me, the biggest factor in there no matter what anyone says, is seat time.. . .the more you race, the better you get. i ran an 8.14@95mph in the 1/8th, a buddy of mine who drives every weekend for the last 25 years ran a 7.84 (dont remember the speed) but then again he is about 200lbs less than my fat azz. but his tree time was (i **** you not) .002 practice will make you much better. and for a first time at the track, those times are actually fairly decent.

'69Stang · Apr 24, 2008

The MPH looks a little low but the wheel hop and the 1-2 shift will hurt your results a ton.

With a Cold Air Intake and tune your results will improve dramatically.

But traction is necessary if you want good results. As they say "It's no good unless you can put the power to the pavement."

gashog · Apr 24, 2008

Dan,
Don't feel bad, i got very similar times the first time i went out. Your 60' times look better than mine, but i couldn't muster a 100mph+ trap either and my times were always 14.x

Practice is key.

i'm going back may 9th for 13s. I told my buddy we will stay there all night if we have to.

NotQuik · Apr 24, 2008

don't feel bad at all, my first time out I went 14.3@97 granted it was hot and I was at a higher altitude since I was visiting a friend in another state. I'm not the greatest driver myself but after I got home and went back i was able to run the times in sig. at sea level....so weather makes a large difference in the cars performance as well as density altitude like they said. You could have been in the 15's!

o0Dan0o · Apr 24, 2008

Thanks guys. I'm not real worried about the times. Drag racing is a skill I have never really practiced, and so I'm not surprised that I'm not very good at it. I'll probably make it again in a few weeks, work on my launches and my shift into second.

I'm actually installing quite a few mods this weekend, LTs with O/R-H, JLT II and Bama tune, CMDPs, and on monday I'm going to try and get into a local shop to dyno it, with fingers crossed.
Dan

kooldawg6 · Apr 24, 2008

For the first time out in a new car, they aren't bad. Practice is the key! Knowing how your car reacts to different staring line techniques is where it's at. A great start will almost always return a great run(barring mechanical/mental problems). If you are running in test and tune sessions, then reaction times don't mean squat in your runs! Your ET will not start until you move forward and brake the starting beam. I'd suggest, since your new at this, spend more time on launching and shifting rather than trying to cut that .000 light.
I believe the MPH is an average over the last 60' or so before the finish line.

cowtown · Apr 25, 2008

I've been racing for years at the strip, not like every weekend but I'm certainly experienced enough to know what to do.

Density Altitude does make a difference, for instance here in Calgary we're 3500 ft above sea level, but our density altitude during the summer can pass 6000ft!

Anyways I think you look at a tune and CAI and your times will drop a bunch, I dropped 3 tenths and picked up 2.5MPH with my first Predator tuner and after getting a SCT with Brenspeed tunes I improved even more. For a manual I'd suggest looking into lower control arms, could help you wheel hop.

And I didn't see it mentoned but if you're not running slicks or drag radials, stay the hell out of the water trap! It does you no good on stock radials to sit in there and spin, all you do is spray water up and it sits in the sipes and will cause you no end of grief, drive around the water and then stage normally after that. Trust me on this!

LV51FER · Apr 25, 2008

Worth shallow staging too which means you stage just as the light comes on - it means your car is a fraction further back and so the car is already moving when the beam breaks and the time starts. When you're talking 1/10ths of a second, it all helps.

Haven't dragged the Stang yet but my Z28 started at 14.2 and came down to 13.8 with a bit of practice and that was very much traction limited on a non-prepped track.

Emay · Apr 25, 2008

Tons of good help and comments here thus far. I wanted to make sure you were clear about just how bad wheel hop is.

Often times just spinning, no wheel hop, will net a higher trap speed with a higher ET. Full on traction gets you a lower trap speed with a lower ET. Nature of the traction game.

Wheel hop however is plain old bad news and hurts tremendously. It ruins all ability to get down the track. The driveline becomes inefficient and lets not forget the stress it's causing the components.

Based on your description of the wheel hop and your woes, I'm assuming you were basically dumping the clutch. Try slipping it to reduce that wheel hop. LCA's are not a huge cost and will basically eliminate that problem on a stock GT.

Doing that will allow a bit harder of a launch, with you still needing to compensate for clean wheel spin on regular tires. However, you wil get better forward momentum down the track, which in turn gets a better trap..

o0Dan0o · Apr 25, 2008

Thanks for all the advice guys! I was dodging the water box all night. For the most part I didn't even try to warm up the tires since I had all the traction in 1st I needed. I'd just spin them once to make sure I missed the water, nicked it once and so I kept it going for a sec to dry them off.

I tried shallow staging too, was the best time I had of the night, but I think there were several things going on there. Basically I wasn't prepared for how much traction I had off the line, I was expecting to spin some, since thats all I do on the street... The wheel hop was really bad, I'd either bog completely or beat the rear into the ground repeatedly. On my fasted run I had some wheel hop, a few hard hits, but kept in it as it wasn't near as bad. I could have slipped the clutch a lot more though I wasn't completely dumping it, I should have tried but didn't think of it while I was there (kinda robot-ish once I got on the line...)

Thanks again.
Dan

cowtown · Apr 25, 2008

o0Dan0o said:
Thanks for all the advice guys! I was dodging the water box all night. For the most part I didn't even try to warm up the tires since I had all the traction in 1st I needed. I'd just spin them once to make sure I missed the water, nicked it once and so I kept it going for a sec to dry them off.

I tried shallow staging too, was the best time I had of the night, but I think there were several things going on there. Basically I wasn't prepared for how much traction I had off the line, I was expecting to spin some, since thats all I do on the street... The wheel hop was really bad, I'd either bog completely or beat the rear into the ground repeatedly. On my fasted run I had some wheel hop, a few hard hits, but kept in it as it wasn't near as bad. I could have slipped the clutch a lot more though I wasn't completely dumping it, I should have tried but didn't think of it while I was there (kinda robot-ish once I got on the line...)

Thanks again.
Dan

It will take time fo sho. Look at the mods mentioned though, just LCA's and the intake/tuner will make all the difference in the world.

kooldawg6 · Apr 26, 2008

cowtown said:
It will take time fo sho. Look at the mods mentioned though, just LCA's and the intake/tuner will make all the difference in the world.

+1! With just those three mods and seat time, given decent track prep, I don't see why you couldn't knock off at least .5+ second from your ETs

ct07gt · Apr 26, 2008

Since you have 3.31 gears in your car, an upgrade to 3.73 gears would make a significant difference. 4.10s might be a little too much if you only drag race once in a while. Between your intake, tune, LCA's, and lower gears you should see a big drop in time. I just bought Roush billet LCA's on sale for $279 which is down from $408, got them at Stage3motorsports.com, free shipping too.

1st time at the track

o0Dan0o

Fourth Horseman

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o0Dan0o

Redfire 05

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Redfire 05

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belzebub2u

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'69Stang

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mine works really well and can take a fair amount

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Emay

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kooldawg6

mine works really well and can take a fair amount

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