2006 Boss 302 Mustang?

TampaBear67 · Jan 31, 2004

You Are Talking About The FORD GT, Right?

SVTdriver said:
The reason I heard Ford didn't want to pay to get the name back. Is the guy who owns it wanted $40 million for it. They could never make that money back on thecar. They may not even make enough to total that number without any other costs being considered.

IF you're talking aboout the Ford GT, it had nothing to do with Buying the name GT40 From anyone. The Original "GT40's" werent actually called that in the First place! The 40 was more of a nick name given to it by the press back in the 60's, having to do with the 40" height of the car. Actually they were designated as Ford GT, Mark I, MarkII, etc. Unfortunatly due to the Newest GT's height of 44" It would be Improper to call it a GT40.

vyto2 · Jan 31, 2004

Hmmmmm, GT 44????

SVTdriver · Jan 31, 2004

awalbert88 said:
The argument that there are live axle cars that handle as well as IRS cars and thusly the live axle is just as good is, to me, like saying that there are 4-bangers that can outrun V8's, ergo the V8 is a silly wasteful expense.

So your saying you don't believe there are 4's that can outrun V8's?

BOSSJIM · Jan 31, 2004

great topic...

as an owner of a REAL BOSS 302..(owned a drag prepped in the early seventies) today i own a show stopper, i can tell you that from what i've been reading on this thread that there may be a market to resurrect the BOSS 302....will Parnelli Jones or George Folmer be driving any of these as race prepared trans-am cars?..of course, to keep within the parameters of the BOSS legend to make it a bonofide BOSS 302 they will have to win the championship. If these 'new' BOSS 302 cars come to fruition without any racing history behind it, to me it may as well be a F-150 pick-up truck with BOSS 302 stripes....

What chaps my butt on this is it seems today in the 'modern' world and with as RICK says 'new' technology in regards to engineering advancements, there appears today to be a total lack of imagination and new ideas when it comes to marketiong cars...geez..how lame...lets DIMINISH the BOSS legend and build a new mustang using a 35 year old idea...

To me if they build this car, i will go out of my way to explain that this is NOT a real BOSS 302...can you say ....clone?...pathetic...name it something else.

Also...Hot Rod magazine rated the BOSS 302 at 330 hp.
Super car Magazine had the BOSS 302 for drag tests..13.50...103.0 mph
Car Craft Magazine.....14.04...101.23mph
Super Stock mag..14.15...100.0

Information can be found on the BOSS 302 in Donald Farrs BOSS 302, FORDS TRANS-AM PONY CAR book....

So please, if you're going to give information on the BOSS 302, do some RESEARCH first...thankyou

Jim...been there, done that....

Mach460 · Jan 31, 2004

BOSSJIM said:
as an owner of a REAL BOSS 302..(owned a drag prepped in the early seventies) today i own a show stopper, i can tell you that from what i've been reading on this thread that there may be a market to resurrect the BOSS 302....will Parnelli Jones or George Folmer be driving any of these as race prepared trans-am cars?..of course, to keep within the parameters of the BOSS legend to make it a bonofide BOSS 302 they will have to win the championship. If these 'new' BOSS 302 cars come to fruition without any racing history behind it, to me it may as well be a F-150 pick-up truck with BOSS 302 stripes....

What chaps my butt on this is it seems today in the 'modern' world and with as RICK says 'new' technology in regards to engineering advancements, there appears today to be a total lack of imagination and new ideas when it comes to marketiong cars...geez..how lame...lets DIMINISH the BOSS legend and build a new mustang using a 35 year old idea...

To me if they build this car, i will go out of my way to explain that this is NOT a real BOSS 302...can you say ....clone?...pathetic...name it something else.

Also...Hot Rod magazine rated the BOSS 302 at 330 hp.
Super car Magazine had the BOSS 302 for drag tests..13.50...103.0 mph
Car Craft Magazine.....14.04...101.23mph
Super Stock mag..14.15...100.0

Information can be found on the BOSS 302 in Donald Farrs BOSS 302, FORDS TRANS-AM PONY CAR book....

So please, if you're going to give information on the BOSS 302, do some RESEARCH first...thankyou

Jim...been there, done that....

Like I said, the Speed World Challenge or the ALMS GTS class would be the perfect showcase for a BOSS 302 resurrection.

Let's hope Ford wakes up to this.

BOSSJIM · Jan 31, 2004

Mach460 said:
Like I said, the Speed World Challenge or the ALMS GTS class would be the perfect showcase for a BOSS 302 resurrection.

Let's hope Ford wakes up to this.

no...lets HOPE ...NOT...

I KNOW...how about this...BOSS CLONE..or..BOSS REPLICA..or BOSS BOGUS...(i personally like the last one)

AND TAKING THE CHECKERED FLAG..!...the new BOSS BOGUS!...

SVTdriver · Jan 31, 2004

So you are against mustangs competing in racing using the Boss name. No matter what number is?

BOSSJIM · Jan 31, 2004

SVTdriver said:
So you are against mustangs competing in racing using the Boss name. No matter what number is?

YES...only exception would be the vintage cars that already have competed in the trans-am wars of the late 60's and early 70's.

Now you will ask..why?..

I do not want the BOSS 302 name to get diluted with 'modern' cars and new technology. After a few decades roll by the history and the reasons for this car being built will be lost to the succeeding generations making the originals seem quaint and thereby losing the respect they deserve. You have to understand where i'm coming from to understand my passion for this car.

Anyone that has any inkling to the history and legend of this Mustang from the standpoint of what it took to get this car built and on to the winners circle with all the dedication, hard work, the best engineers, race crews, in my opinion should take a hard look at why they themselves like cars, fast cars, then and only then will you begin to understand my reasons. Take a closer look at the next 69-70 BOSS 302 you see. You are looking at a piece of art work, not JUST a car. A factory built RACECAR...with a proven winners history. Not many cars can claim this sort of history...or looks or power from a SB.

Name it something else...isn't there anyone out there in the newer generation with ANY imagination, or new ideas...?

Anyway, i supose if there is a buck to be made scamming the BOSS legend and mystique, i believe there isn't much i can do except inform future 'BOSS 302' owners of the nice car they have and that its not really a BOSS.

my 2 cents...

351CJ · Jan 31, 2004

Damn, now I'm going to have to find that article. The article where someone tested a 2001 Mustang Cobra verses a real 1970 Boss 302 race car.

Guess which one lapped the road course faster?

Mach460 · Jan 31, 2004

BOSSJIM said:
Anyway, i supose if there is a buck to be made scamming the BOSS legend and mystique, i believe there isn't much i can do except inform future 'BOSS 302' owners of the nice car they have and that its not really a BOSS.

my 2 cents...

Hmmm...how can Ford scam it's own name and legend......

Funny....I don't see many owners of vintage Mach 1's throwing such a hissy fit about the new Mach 1.

SVTdriver · Jan 31, 2004

I undestand part of what your saying. But none of the boss cars I've seen have come with a roll cage standard and they all seemed to have full interiors. So modification was needed to make it legal to compete anyway. I love the older cars. But I honestly don't think a new version that could be a contender on a road race course . Would dilute the respect the originals get. My personal feelings are. While I like my 97 Cobra. I will be selling it for an 05. While my 66 (though slower) will be getting put into the garage for restoration/modifying. But I would have to say that for it to retain the boss name. It had better be competitive on the track. Not just be a stock mustang with a graphics package and a little more hp. Which was my personal gripe with the bullit.

SVTdriver · Jan 31, 2004

Mach460 said:
Hmmm...how can Ford scam it's own name and legend......

Funny....I don't see many owners of vintage Mach 1's throwing such a hissy fit about the new Mach 1.

You're right the Mach owners are in general not complaining. But I believe the Boss was significantly more limited than the mach. So the owners are a small more vocal group.

Mach460 · Jan 31, 2004

SVTdriver said:
I undestand part of what your saying. But none of the boss cars I've seen have come with a roll cage standard and they all seemed to have full interiors. So modification was needed to make it legal to compete anyway. I love the older cars. But I honestly don't think a new version that could be a contender on a road race course . Would dilute the respect the originals get. My personal feelings are. While I like my 97 Cobra. I will be selling it for an 05. While my 66 (though slower) will be getting put into the garage for restoration/modifying. But I would have to say that for it to retain the boss name. It had better be competitive on the track. Not just be a stock mustang with a graphics package and a little more hp. Which was my personal gripe with the bullit.

A little history lesson and interesting tidbits courtesy of "Mustang Race Cars" by John Craft and "The Boss 302 Trans-Am Site".

There were only 7 "Boss 302" race cars built in 1969. Three went to Shelby American, three went to Holman and Moody, and the seventh to Smokey Yunick for Nascar Grand American (NASCAR's answer to SCCA's Trans-Am, except on ovals). The funny thing is...NONE of the factory Boss 302 race cars, the cars upon which the legend is built, are "true" Boss 302's, they were all Mach 1's picked from the line. If I remember correctly, 4 of them were 351 Mach's, and the other 3 were 428 CJ Machs. None of the factory race car were "G"-code cars (the Engine designation in the VIN for a Boss 302), they were "R" or "M" code.

By the time the street Bosses hit the road, the Boss 302 race cars had already been on the track for a couple of months.

For the 1970 season, Shelby quit racing and sold his cars to Holman-Moody. No new cars were built in 1970. The famous school bus yellow Boss 302 that Parnelli Jones drove to the championship is actually a 1969 Mach 1 with 1970 sheetmetal! All the privateer Boss 302's raced in 1969 and 1970 were street cars converted for track use.

Now the point of all this is to point out that the legend is just that...a legend, colored by 30 years of time and longing for the nosta;gia of it. Ford is not going to tarnish the legend if they decide to take the Mustang, race it, and use the Boss 302 name.

It's all marketing. It was marketing back in 1969, it's marketing now.

SVTdriver · Jan 31, 2004

Do you honestly think Ford will get back into racing mustangs?

Mach460 · Jan 31, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Do you honestly think Ford will get back into racing mustangs?

I don't see why not. The SCCA Speed World Challnege is the spiritual successor of the original Trans-Am and is getting a lot of interest from the manufacturers. Even Cadillac is getting into the mix with their CTS-VT race car. But even if Ford itself doesn't race Mustangs, you can bet there sare ome enterprising privateers who will. If nothing else, you can bet Saleen will probably have a go at it.

SVTdriver · Jan 31, 2004

Yes privateers will likely field at least a few mustangs. But I seriously doubt Ford will get back into the game.

Mach460 · Jan 31, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Yes privateers will likely field at least a few mustangs. But I seriously doubt Ford will get back into the game.

Yeah...I doubt we'll see a factory team...but I wouldn't be surprised to see a factory race car in the same mold of the Cobra R's. But like I've said, Saleen is good for a couple of cars, and you can bet Steeda will mix up as well.

BOSSJIM · Jan 31, 2004

351CJ said:
Damn, now I'm going to have to find that article. The article where someone tested a 2001 Mustang Cobra verses a real 1970 Boss 302 race car.

Guess which one lapped the road course faster?

you miss the point...

i get the same argument from the drag racing crowd, which i used to be part of..' gee i know of a car that can beat your car'..gee..no sheet..hemi..scj...yenko's...yada...

nothing on this earth like a BOSS 302 at 8 grand...just ask anyone who'
s had their doors blown off by one.

As to comparing the Mach one with the BOSS...are you frickin' kiddin' me? only thing they share is the sportsroof. If it had a scj in it then maybe you could have some bragging rights...on the straight line only.

OK...i could compromise on this...IF FORD went full tilt into racing and bank rolled a BOSS 302 to compete...AND WIN...and i don't mean just win, i mean DESTROY the competition then i would be happy...

but...i have to agree, i don't think FORD is willing to go that far. There are plans from team shinoda to build a BOSS 302 BUT i don't think at this stage they have factory blessing as yet but they (the shinoda family) has the rights to the BOSS 302 label and it could happen anyway with or without FORDS blessing...so, at this juncture it appears that we may end up with a 'hollow' BOSS 302.....hey...if anyones interested you can buy the BOSS 302 graphics and put'em on your ricers.

BOSSJIM · Jan 31, 2004

Mach460 said:
A little history lesson and interesting tidbits courtesy of "Mustang Race Cars" by John Craft and "The Boss 302 Trans-Am Site".

There were only 7 "Boss 302" race cars built in 1969. Three went to Shelby American, three went to Holman and Moody, and the seventh to Smokey Yunick for Nascar Grand American (NASCAR's answer to SCCA's Trans-Am, except on ovals). The funny thing is...NONE of the factory Boss 302 race cars, the cars upon which the legend is built, are "true" Boss 302's, they were all Mach 1's picked from the line. If I remember correctly, 4 of them were 351 Mach's, and the other 3 were 428 CJ Machs. None of the factory race car were "G"-code cars (the Engine designation in the VIN for a Boss 302), they were "R" or "M" code.

By the time the street Bosses hit the road, the Boss 302 race cars had already been on the track for a couple of months.

For the 1970 season, Shelby quit racing and sold his cars to Holman-Moody. No new cars were built in 1970. The famous school bus yellow Boss 302 that Parnelli Jones drove to the championship is actually a 1969 Mach 1 with 1970 sheetmetal! All the privateer Boss 302's raced in 1969 and 1970 were street cars converted for track use.

Now the point of all this is to point out that the legend is just that...a legend, colored by 30 years of time and longing for the nosta;gia of it. Ford is not going to tarnish the legend if they decide to take the Mustang, race it, and use the Boss 302 name.

It's all marketing. It was marketing back in 1969, it's marketing now.

Yes, thanks for the history lesson but...the bottom line is these cars had BOSS 302...again...BOSS 302 engines albeit modified but under sccca rules and the homoligation rule these cars had to posess certain aspects to be able to compete, meaning they had to have engine displacement and engineering additions that would be applied to the street version. Same rules applied to the Z-28 302 and the other cars involved. Un-fortunatley for GM and Chrysler and AMC the FORD plan kicked a$$...

So in closing the street version of the BOSS 302 could in reality be modified to the specs. of the race car version without too much problem. Its only money my friend.

Mach460 · Feb 1, 2004

BOSSJIM said:
Yes, thanks for the history lesson but...the bottom line is these cars had BOSS 302...again...BOSS 302 engines albeit modified but under sccca rules and the homoligation rule these cars had to posess certain aspects to be able to compete, meaning they had to have engine displacement and engineering additions that would be applied to the street version. Same rules applied to the Z-28 302 and the other cars involved. Un-fortunatley for GM and Chrysler and AMC the FORD plan kicked a$$...

So in closing the street version of the BOSS 302 could in reality be modified to the specs. of the race car version without too much problem. Its only money my friend.

So if Ford can do the same thing with the Cammer 5.0L and IRS and take the 05 Mustang racing...what would be the problem with using the Boss name?

2006 Boss 302 Mustang?

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