2006 Boss 302 Mustang?

BOSSJIM · Feb 1, 2004

Mach460 said:
So if Ford can do the same thing with the Cammer 5.0L and IRS and take the 05 Mustang racing...what would be the problem with using the Boss name?

please re-read my previous post on who has the rights to the BOSS 302 label.

I still like BOGUS BOSS, but team Shinoda is adament on building a BOSS 302 for the masses. Basically to capitilize on the name...you know, the one that took the trans-am crown at Seattle International Raceway in 1970.

351CJ · Feb 1, 2004

BOSSJIM said:
please re-read my previous post on who has the rights to the BOSS 302 label.

I still like BOGUS BOSS, but team Shinoda is adament on building a BOSS 302 for the masses. Basically to capitilize on the name...you know, the one that took the trans-am crown at Seattle International Raceway in 1970.

So by your logic, Ford should have retired the GT name in 1967 forever after winning the LeMans 24 HR for the 2nd time, the Cobra name shuold have been retired in 1965 after winning the FIA world manufacturer's championship, the Taurus name should have been retired after it won the NASCAR manufacturer's championship and the Ford name itself should have been retired in 1967 after Ford won 3 straight Indy 500's.

IMHO you're a bit carried away with your Boss 302 worship. The Boss 302 lost the Trans-Am championship in 1969 and barely won it in 1970. Off the production line Boss 302's were dogs with no low end torque and bone stock are about as fast as a bone stock 99 - 04 Mustang GT.

awalbert88 · Feb 1, 2004

SVTdriver said:
So your saying you don't believe there are 4's that can outrun V8's?

Uh... please tell me you're just joking. I really thought the average Stangnet reader would be able to connect the dots, but maybe not. My point is that yes there are 4's that can outrun V8's, and yes there are live axles that can outhandle an IRS. Which has the potential for better power? The V8. Which has the potential for better ride quality? The IRS.

What's more streetable? A 390HP V8 on 8psi or a 390HP I4 on 28PSI? Which one actually costs less to put into a production car? The same can be applied to the live axle vs. IRS argument. Building a car with a solid axle that can outhandle a basic IRS in the same car is going to cost as much as or more than the IRS system in the first place.

Any further questions about why I prefer IRS to a live axle?

BOSSJIM · Feb 1, 2004

351CJ said:
So by your logic, Ford should have retired the GT name in 1967 forever after winning the LeMans 24 HR for the 2nd time, the Cobra name shuold have been retired in 1965 after winning the FIA world manufacturer's championship, the Taurus name should have been retired after it won the NASCAR manufacturer's championship and the Ford name itself should have been retired in 1967 after Ford won 3 straight Indy 500's.

IMHO you're a bit carried away with your Boss 302 worship. The Boss 302 lost the Trans-Am championship in 1969 and barely won it in 1970. Off the production line Boss 302's were dogs with no low end torque and bone stock are about as fast as a bone stock 99 - 04 Mustang GT.

we are talking BOSS 302 here, not cobra or GT...try and humor me here..thanks.

yes, the BOSS 302 did lose in 69...so? maybe you could tell me why.
and yes, the BOSS 302 were underpowered from the factory, maybe you could tell me why...so was the BOSS 429, again why? and maybe you could tell the folks here how easy it was to correct the asthma these cars suffered as a result of...what?..maybe you could tell me.

Maybe you could tell me how to turn a 14 second car into low 13 without putting on turbo chargers or changing rears.

Look, you obviously think its a wonderful idea to Re-make the BOSS 302 in its own image...well,,i don't. I gave some reasons why.

The BOSS 302 Mustang is STILL the baddest looking car out there. You should be with me when i take my car out cruising. I bet you don't get the attention or thumbs up looks like i do. And gee whiz, there are cars FASTER than me...no frickin' lie!...
I like all Mustangs. I'm what you would call a Mustang freak. Why are you here?...i can give you the link to a Chevy forum if you would like, or better still how about a ricer link..

IMHO i think you are jealous...thanks for the negative input.

awalbert88 · Feb 1, 2004

I don't see how producing a new BOSS Mustang would take away from the legacy of the original. The notion that producing a new one would do so seems to suggest that we should be calling the new Mustang by a different name (Mustang V?) for fear it would take away from the legacy of the first gen. If anything, it would attract more interest in the originals I think.

And what if Ford did produce a BOSS 302 that walked all over everything on the track? Putting aside all the technical reasons Ford can't do it quite like this, just imagine:

5.0L Cammer putting out 420hp
T56 or opt. 6-speed auto w/ paddle shifters
IRS w/ built 9" diff.
6-point roll cage
Rear seat delete
Recaro front seats
Weight reduction to approx. 3200lbs
Two-stage adjustable stall for auto (standard 2000rpm or drag 6000rpm) -- not sure if this is technically feasible though

1/4: 12.3s
0-60: 5.1s

And let's say it's produced in very limited quantities, maybe 1500 combined units for two years (more if needed for various race classes to be considered 'production').

Now, would you still complain about it? This is a car that would trounce every other factory vehicle on a race circuit, probably even the Viper SRT-10 and C6 Corvette. Maybe even the new Z06 depending on how agressive Chevy is with the power on that model.

Every manufacturer recycles old names for vehicles, engines, and other things. The Z06 and ZL1 names are being reused by Chevy on the Corvette. GM also has the LS1, LS2, and LS6 motors, which are nothing like the original engines that bore those designations. Ford is using the Mach 1 and GT(40) names for vehicles that are only similar to their originals in appearance.

Since you complained that Ford couldn't think of a new name, then just for S's and G's, let's start coming up with some names for what a new race-inspired, but higher production Mustang could be called (excl. Cobra R, since that is a truly limited production run of a couple hundred units). Keep in mind we'd want this vehicle to come in below $35k. Any ideas?

SVTdriver · Feb 1, 2004

You want that list for under $35k. Good luck.

351CJ · Feb 1, 2004

BOSSJIM said:
we are talking BOSS 302 here, not cobra or GT...try and humor me here..thanks.

yes, the BOSS 302 did lose in 69...so? maybe you could tell me why.
and yes, the BOSS 302 were underpowered from the factory, maybe you could tell me why...so was the BOSS 429, again why? and maybe you could tell the folks here how easy it was to correct the asthma these cars suffered as a result of...what?..maybe you could tell me.

Maybe you could tell me how to turn a 14 second car into low 13 without putting on turbo chargers or changing rears.

Look, you obviously think its a wonderful idea to Re-make the BOSS 302 in its own image...well,,i don't. I gave some reasons why.

The BOSS 302 Mustang is STILL the baddest looking car out there. You should be with me when i take my car out cruising. I bet you don't get the attention or thumbs up looks like i do. And gee whiz, there are cars FASTER than me...no frickin' lie!...
I like all Mustangs. I'm what you would call a Mustang freak. Why are you here?...i can give you the link to a Chevy forum if you would like, or better still how about a ricer link..

IMHO i think you are jealous...thanks for the negative input.

Sorry, but I am not the slightest bit jealous of you or your Boss 302. Belive me, if I really wanted to, I could go buy a fully restored one tomorrow. I've had my share of cars from that era and last year got rid of my last "classic" car. I've had all the attention and thumbs up I need. I could care less whether you get more attention than I've had, I'm not looking to impress anyone besides myself with what I drive.

As for the rest of your questions, I certainly could answer them, but you apparently already know the answers so I won't waste my time. I just wonder if you've put some real valve guides in your 302 so the valves aren't rattling around.

If you really are a Mustang freak, you would welcome a new incarnation of the Boss 302. But instead it appears that in your quest to obtain your higher status, you've created your own little club to prove how superior you are to us lowly and inferior Mustang drivers.

BOSSJIM · Feb 1, 2004

351CJ said:
Sorry, but I am not the slightest bit jealous of you or your Boss 302. Belive me, if I really wanted to, I could go buy a fully restored one tomorrow. I've had my share of cars from that era and last year got rid of my last "classic" car. I've had all the attention and thumbs up I need. I could care less whether you get more attention than I've had, I'm not looking to impress anyone besides myself with what I drive.

As for the rest of your questions, I certainly could answer them, but you apparently already know the answers so I won't waste my time. I just wonder if you've put some real valve guides in your 302 so the valves aren't rattling around.

If you really are a Mustang freak, you would welcome a new incarnation of the Boss 302. But instead it appears that in your quest to obtain your higher status, you've created your own little club to prove how superior you are to us lowly and inferior Mustang drivers.

LOL!...wow!...like your passion!...too bad you don't have any for classic Mustangs and/or Mustangs in general....still don't get why you are in here...

Now, seeing how you asked, and i'm always willing to answer questions about my car, the valve guides were machined to accept special spring seats to keep the bottom of the valve spring from shifting.
Topped off with Lunati roller rockers and titanium retainers. Cam is a click higher than stock, bored .030 with 11:1, balanced, 650 dble holley, dble row timing chain, 40 lb. hayes flywheel, 11 inch centerforce dual friction clutch, 391 rear, 9 inch, oil cooler, FPA ceramic headers, flowmaster 40. 4 SPEED, comp 9000 dist.

fyi...i also owned a 65 coupe at one time. Was my first car.

anyway, be cool.....later.

63_Fairlane · Feb 2, 2004

OK... so now we see you have a highly modified Boss 302. I thought you were worried about keeping things "REAL". If you are not concerned about all those non-stock parts on your car then you shouldn't be concerned about a new Boss.

As far as dominace is concerned, the Boss 302 didn't fare so well in 1969. It didn't win the Trans-Am Champion ship until 1970. Also, the road race cars had little to nothing in common with the street cars. We are talking full roll cage, big cam, dual carb, etc, etc on the race cars.

BOSSJIM · Feb 2, 2004

63_Fairlane said:
OK... so now we see you have a highly modified Boss 302. I thought you were worried about keeping things "REAL". If you are not concerned about all those non-stock parts on your car then you shouldn't be concerned about a new Boss.

As far as dominace is concerned, the Boss 302 didn't fare so well in 1969. It didn't win the Trans-Am Champion ship until 1970. Also, the road race cars had little to nothing in common with the street cars. We are talking full roll cage, big cam, dual carb, etc, etc on the race cars.

wow...glad to see some are taking me to task on this issue. Thats good. I'm never REALLY 100% behind anything. I keep my mind and options always open.

I beleive i did say IF FORD were to bankroll a 'new' BOSS 302 race team and not just win but destroy the competition, i would think that would be my impetus to be cool with a next generation BOSS 302 for the public...maybe..

Now to the history of the BOSS 302. I have a book on the BOSS history. Many FACTS in here. The BOSS 302 won its very first race in the first race of the season in 1969. A decision was made by FORD executives to run inferior tires to try and save money. Didn't work and the rest of season was spent trying to do the best they could with this problem, albeit accidents and parts breaking was an issue as well, however the Bud Moore prepared BOSS 302 had 3 1st place finishes, 5 2nd place, 2 3rd, 2 4th...

Not exactly a dismal season for a first time crack...the Shelby team didn't do as well that year as the new-comer BOSS team...

Street BOSS and Race prepped BOSS comparisons...same body, same cubic inch, same steering ratio, both normally aspirated one 4 bbl carb,(not dual 4 bbls) same compression, and there were more subtle comparisons that matched, but yes, the race BOSS 302 was a monster compared to the street version, afterall, it was a full tilt RACECAR designed to stir the juices of guys my age at the time...

Only problem i have here is this argument i seem to be having with CERTAIN people in here concerning this issue...and thats the fact i'm very passionate about this car and it seems like its being treated like some kind of mental problem. This car is a work of art...period...

as i write this i have just learned the BOSS name is still in litigation. It was my understanding the Shinoda family had the rights to this name...interesting development.

351CJ · Feb 2, 2004

BOSSJIM said:
LOL!...wow!...like your passion!...too bad you don't have any for classic Mustangs and/or Mustangs in general....still don't get why you are in here...

It appears that everything you have assumed about me is way off base.

I have owned 30 cars, 26 Fords and 4 GMs. Never owned an import and unless Ford & GM go out of business I don't intend to ever get one either. So you're rather insulting telling me to go get a ricer.

I'm also old enough to have seen at least a dozen Trans-Am races between 1967 & 1971. I've got hundreds of slides of Trans-Am cars that I took at several tracks.

As a kid I eat, drank and slept road racing, Can-Am, Endurance, Trans-Am and F5000. At one point I could rattle off from memory the top 10 finishers of every Trans-Am and Can-Am race from 1966 - 1970. When I was a kid, my dream car was a 1970 Boss 302. In the mid 70's I had an opportunity to pick up a slime green one that has a 2 bbl 289 stuck into it for peanuts. The owner blew the Boss 302 motor, dropped a valve into a pistion and couldn't afford to fix it. My plans were to put in a 351 Cleveland 4bbl into it that I had sitting in the back of my father's garage. But too many other cars and no place to keep yet another one made me think better of it.

Yes the Boss 302 was one the best if the original generation Mustangs, but time has moved on and so have I. I no longer have any interst in 30+ year old cars, the new ones are so much better. The reason why I am here, is to learn about and talk about the 2005 Mustang. Why you are here I really don't know. We were having a nice discussion dreaming about a new Boss 302 that would do justice to the original, but some people (that's you) just want to live in the past and dump your negativity on us. Maybe you should find the vintage Mustang section and leave us alone.

Sorry if I disagree with you, but it's time for a new Boss 302 and if Ford made one with all the right stuff, I'd get one in an instant and so would thousands of other people. But then again, what I'm really hoping for is that Ford makes a new Boss 351 with the V10!

BOSSJIM · Feb 3, 2004

351CJ said:
It appears that everything you have assumed about me is way off base.

I have owned 30 cars, 26 Fords and 4 GMs. Never owned an import and unless Ford & GM go out of business I don't intend to ever get one either. So you're rather insulting telling me to go get a ricer.

I'm also old enough to have seen at least a dozen Trans-Am races between 1967 & 1971. I've got hundreds of slides of Trans-Am cars that I took at several tracks.

As a kid I eat, drank and slept road racing, Can-Am, Endurance, Trans-Am and F5000. At one point I could rattle off from memory the top 10 finishers of every Trans-Am and Can-Am race from 1966 - 1970. When I was a kid, my dream car was a 1970 Boss 302. In the mid 70's I had an opportunity to pick up a slime green one that has a 2 bbl 289 stuck into it for peanuts. The owner blew the Boss 302 motor, dropped a valve into a pistion and couldn't afford to fix it. My plans were to put in a 351 Cleveland 4bbl into it that I had sitting in the back of my father's garage. But too many other cars and no place to keep yet another one made me think better of it.

Yes the Boss 302 was one the best if the original generation Mustangs, but time has moved on and so have I. I no longer have any interst in 30+ year old cars, the new ones are so much better. The reason why I am here, is to learn about and talk about the 2005 Mustang. Why you are here I really don't know. We were having a nice discussion dreaming about a new Boss 302 that would do justice to the original, but some people (that's you) just want to live in the past and dump your negativity on us. Maybe you should find the vintage Mustang section and leave us alone.

Sorry if I disagree with you, but it's time for a new Boss 302 and if Ford made one with all the right stuff, I'd get one in an instant and so would thousands of other people. But then again, what I'm really hoping for is that Ford makes a new Boss 351 with the V10!

No need to apologize. I believe this thread needed to hear a different viewpoint on this issue. I took it upon myself to inject that viewpoint...(ain't America swell!) I spent my time at the drag strip at the same time you were watching road racing. Bought a BOSS 302 and built the snot out of it to drag race....i too have many photos of me racing and timing slips to prove it. Sold my beast to raise a family. Kids are gone now... i have a show BOSS now...looks like it came right off the showroom floor, only i drive this car. No trailer queens for me. You know where i stand, no need to beat it to death. GOD BLESS FORDS.

LATER...

Vlad · Feb 3, 2004

vyto2 said:
Hmmmmmmm, I wonder...

no offense but

BOSSJIM · Feb 3, 2004

awalbert88 · Feb 3, 2004

SVTdriver said:
You want that list for under $35k. Good luck.

I'm not referring to the specs list I posted. That was just for BOSSJIM to get a reality check for him. I gather from his posts that he's not against a new BOSS, as long as it's true in spirit and execution to the original (am I correct?).

But it would seem that this is becoming a personal battle between 351CJ and BOSSJIM, so I'm just going to step out now...

BOSSJIM · Feb 3, 2004

awalbert88 said:
I'm not referring to the specs list I posted. That was just for BOSSJIM to get a reality check for him. I gather from his posts that he's not against a new BOSS, as long as it's true in spirit and execution to the original (am I correct?).

But it would seem that this is becoming a personal battle between 351CJ and BOSSJIM, so I'm just going to step out now...

nah...no personnel battles..agree to disagree. I give as good as i get. I gave my opinion on the BOSS replication idea and thats that.

351CJ may be someone i could sit down and have a beer with and shoot the breeze...who knows?...you too if you're interested. I like MGD.

351CJ · Feb 3, 2004

BOSSJIM said:
No trailer queens for me. LATER...

At least we agree on one thing, no trailer queens here either, although I suppose I could be accused of having several garage queens that I never put more than 500 miles a year on. If you couldn't tell from my handle, 351 Clevelands are my engine.

I sold my last "classic" car about a year ago, a 1972 Gran Torino Sport, 351C 4BBL, 4 speed, 3.50 Traction Lock, fastback, black highback buckets, maroon with laser stipes, Magnum 500 wheels & 51,000 original miles. 99% original down to the dual point distributor. Only mods were, the intake manifold (Edlebrock Aluminum), holly carb (750 dual pumper), electric fuel pump and real Boss 429 oil cooler, but of course I had the original manifold and 4300-D carb sitting on the shelf. Sometimes I think I should have kept it, but I never seemed to find time to work on it. At least I sold it to a 1972 Torino freak who is treating it with TLC.

5.0lpowerhouse · Feb 3, 2004

My stepfather is the owner of a 70 Boss 302 Mustang and is a frequent member of the Boss 302 Registry... I must say when I was younger and I didn't know anything about mustangs, that was the car that got me involved, when he got the car I must have been 15 or so, it needed a full resto, but he had only paid about 10 grand... it was the perfect resto car in solid shape. I watched the car being built for 2 years and everyday it got better, by the time it was finished it was the best looking Mustang I'd ever seen... but it was not what did me in.. I'd been for a rips in a Z06 and a 428CJ that he sold for the boss, so going in I had already experienced some very fast cars. When he first took me for a ride the only thing I could say was holy *****. That freaking thing was nearly reving out about 7500 RPMS, the ride was absolutley unbeliveable. If you think I'm over playing this I kid you not. I NEVER experienced a car like that before, and like I said I'd been in his 428CJ Mach 1 numerous times...

if your curious on what he had done, he never fully have me details but I do know a few things

it is a 331 Stroker Motor using a service block, Using the stock boss heads, a WICKED cam, and a bud moore T/A Manifold

Wouldn't you know I tryed to buy a Boss 302 this january and couldn't get the little financing I needed for the car.. So I ended up with a brand new 03 Mach 1, eventually I will own a Boss 302.

Pred8tor · Feb 6, 2004

Bossjim,

That's one sweet BOSS 302 you have there (assuming that's a pic of your car)! The '70 Mustang really looked sharp!

NOBU-SAN · Feb 6, 2004

Why does it need to be a 5.0? It seems to me that the 5pernt0 was THE engine to use then. But now, what with all of the technology and all. I'd like to see a BOSS, just with a nasty 4.6. Maybe 320hp. IRS, that's all I'd ask for. Everything else seems ready to go to me.

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