302 Build Need Help

[trwilliams1]

Alright so I'm not gonna lie I've been tinkering around with cars my whole life but never rebuilt or built a motor. Anyway I picked up a 1988 Mustang LX with 146k bone stock other than 5 lug swap subframe connectors 373 locker and someother suspension goodies.

On to the topic of this thread though

From the research I've done I found a man mustang mike his website is mustangmikesbudgetbuilds.com or something rather, any way my plan is to do port and polished stock E7 heads cam 1.6 roller rockers hardened push rods higher valve spring rate GT40P intake and keep the bottom end stock with new bearings and rings

The short block and heads as I was told by the owner I bought it from said it only had 60k miles on it which I would believe as the cylinder still have a faint but visible cross hatching

Anyway if someone could also tell me the specs for the crank that would be appreciated I'm getting around 2.12 on the rod journals and 2.24 closer to 2.25 on the mains

Any input on any thing I should know before moving forward would be greatly appreciated

Also trying to keep this one a budget

 

[TuneUpsNSuch]

Here ya go.

 

[2000xp8]

Engine in the house huh, you either aren't married or your wife wants to kill you.

I wouldn't waste a dime or a minute on E7 heads. While i'm not the biggest gt40p fan, if this is a very budget orientated project i'd say get a set, change the springs slap in an E cam or tfs stage one and go.

 

[trwilliams1]

Engine in the house huh, you either aren't married or your wife wants to kill you.

I wouldn't waste a dime or a minute on E7 heads. While i'm not the biggest gt40p fan, if this is a very budget orientated project i'd say get a set, change the springs slap in an E cam or tfs stage one and go.

Not married I'm 22 to early for that. [emoji6]

The reason I was gonna stick with the E7s is because I believe that in the long run two like metals expanding and contracting at the same rate is more reliable, granted yes aluminum heads would dissipate heat better but other than that I didn't see to much of a gain over stock ported heads...?

 

[trwilliams1]

Here ya go.

Thanks man that's a huge help!

 

[trwilliams1]

Engine in the house huh, you either aren't married or your wife wants to kill you.

I wouldn't waste a dime or a minute on E7 heads. While i'm not the biggest gt40p fan, if this is a very budget orientated project i'd say get a set, change the springs slap in an E cam or tfs stage one and go.

And I was thinking of this for a cam thoughts?

 

[Mustang5L5]

Damn. I'm not married and live alone and the sight of an engine in the house is making me cringe!

Then again, i have rebuilt T-5's in my living room and cleaned various rims and other car parts in my tub.

 

[trwilliams1]

Damn. I'm not married and live alone and the sight of an engine in the house is making me cringe!

Then again, i have rebuilt T-5's in my living room and cleaned various rims and other car parts in my tub.

Haha well I live in an apartment so I don't really have an option.

 

[2000xp8]

Not married I'm 22 to early for that. [emoji6]

The reason I was gonna stick with the E7s is because I believe that in the long run two like metals expanding and contracting at the same rate is more reliable, granted yes aluminum heads would dissipate heat better but other than that I didn't see to much of a gain over stock ported heads...?

Don't worry about the aluminum vs iron, the aluminum has been proven reliable in these cars for 25 years now.
A good aluminum combo will provide an easy 300rwhp and cut 50lbs off the nose of the car.
A home ported E7 setup will likely yield 240rwhp and that's if done right, you could actually lose power if you don't know what you are doing.
In a car this light that has about 200rwhp stock, that number is a MASSIVE difference. Not even in the same league.
If you gave me a set of home ported E7's for free, i'd take them to the dump and get a few bucks for the iron. Or i'd give them away (which I have done) so I don't have to take them anywhere.

With that said, gt40p heads from an explorer are iron and cheap and should get you around 260rwhp with the right parts.

If you go the P route (which many here do, although I would only do tw's or afr 165's), don't get all fancy with the cam, an E cam or tfs stage one is fine and is only about $75-$100 on the used market. It's not going to be the make or break component in the setup.

 

[mikestang63]

Welcome.......... a couple of observations

1. NEVER lay a crank down on its side like that. It can create crank creep and distort/warp the crank.
2. I would not waste time on porting E7's when for around 3-400 you can have a set of GT40 heads that will outflow your E7's all day long. You can find them on EBAY or on any 93-99 Ford Explorer/mountaineer for under $100 in a junkyard. Spend another 150 on new springs and another 100 on machine work and there you go. If you have the funds, just go right to a good set ot TFS or AFR heads.
3. By the time you are done with machining the block, new cam bearings, freeze and gallery plugs, bearings, rings, having the rods and block checked for cracks and all the other items you are probably looking at least $1000. I would NOT cheap out on the parts you put in the block, as cheap chinese made parts often are out of spec and/or fail premature. Get a good kit from Eagle or Scat with matching bearings and make sure it is properly balanced to what balancer and flywheel/flexplate you are using. For a camshaft, you cannot go wrong with a TFS1. Intake- again the explorer intake will flow near many aftermarket ones and are cheap. With that many miles, expect to need .30 over pistons
4. I've said this many times- one of the best low budget options is to buy a JY explorer motor. It comes complete with the GT40 top end already on it- heads, intake 65MM throttle body. Swap out the valve springs and cam, distributor, exhuast maifolds, put new gaskets,oil pump, oil pan timing gears and water pump on it. You'll have a decent motor that puts out around 260-280 rwhp with the right cam.

 

[trwilliams1]

Welcome.......... a couple of observations

1. NEVER lay a crank down on its side like that. It can create crank creep and distort/warp the crank.
2. I would not waste time on porting E7's when for around 3-400 you can have a set of GT40 heads that will outflow your E7's all day long. You can find them on EBAY or on any 93-99 Ford Explorer/mountaineer for under $100 in a junkyard. Spend another 150 on new springs and another 100 on machine work and there you go. If you have the funds, just go right to a good set ot TFS or AFR heads.
3. By the time you are done with machining the block, new cam bearings, freeze and gallery plugs, bearings, rings, having the rods and block checked for cracks and all the other items you are probably looking at least $1000. I would NOT cheap out on the parts you put in the block, as cheap chinese made parts often are out of spec and/or fail premature. Get a good kit from Eagle or Scat with matching bearings and make sure it is properly balanced to what balancer and flywheel/flexplate you are using. For a camshaft, you cannot go wrong with a TFS1. Intake- again the explorer intake will flow near many aftermarket ones and are cheap. With that many miles, expect to need .30 over pistons
4. I've said this many times- one of the best low budget options is to buy a JY explorer motor. It comes complete with the GT40 top end already on it- heads, intake 65MM throttle body. Swap out the valve springs and cam, distributor, exhuast maifolds, put new gaskets,oil pump, oil pan timing gears and water pump on it. You'll have a decent motor that puts out around 260-280 rwhp with the right cam.

After hearing everything you guys said probably just gonna grab some GT40 heads and intake or TFS1 if I can find one for a decent price but honestly I'm just going to use the stock rods Pistons and do new rings and bearings

 

[2000xp8]

I didn't want to say it, but i'm with mike on the explorer engine. I know you already have your engine disassembled in your living room, but explorer gt40p engines can be had for $500 (some less).
Put some springs on the heads add the cam, swap the fox parts on and go.

Nothing personal, but an original factory built 302 from an explorer is going to long outlast a home built 302.

I'll bet this method costs you half what you were going to spend and proves to save a lot of trouble in the future.

 

[A5literMan]

^^^^ listen to Mike and 2000xp8. Excellent advise for a tight budget. Just a fwiw you can find good alum heads on corral for example for 700-1000$

 

[trwilliams1]

Probably just gonna spend the money and go with a trick flow topend

 

[2000xp8]

Probably just gonna spend the money and go with a trick flow topend

While I agree with your decision, you do know that is going wayyyyyyy off keeping it on budget right?
That's probably going to wack you about $3000 extra by the time you are done.

I still wouldn't build the shortblock myself either. I've seen so many of those go wrong, some by professionals. Buy $500 explorer engine, take heads sell them for $250, Sell intake for $100, then use the shortblock.

 

[A5literMan]

^^^ while I agree I still want to say it's not that complicated to overhaul his. If he's already started and wants to diy I say go for it.

 

[trwilliams1]

While I agree with your decision, you do know that is going wayyyyyyy off keeping it on budget right?
That's probably going to wack you about $3000 extra by the time you are done.

I still wouldn't build the shortblock myself either. I've seen so many of those go wrong, some by professionals. Buy $500 explorer engine, take heads sell them for $250, Sell intake for $100, then use the shortblock.

Your acting like the world is gonna end if I use that short block haha

 

[2000xp8]

Your acting like the world is gonna end if I use that short block haha

Well, unfortunately with friends in the business I get to see a lot of homeowner handiwork. There just isn't many guys out there that can build an engine that is as reliable as a factory explorer engine. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone here that has had one fail.

You are building it in your living room, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence (I say that with a smile) and clearly you don't want to do this twice. The fact that you thought ported e7's were a better choice than aluminum and 2 days ago you had a completely different plan doesn't help either. No insult intended, we all have to start somewhere, I just don't think that somewhere is rebuilding a shortblock.
If you botch the head or intake gaskets you can fix that without that much effort anywhere. You fudge the clearances or anything on the shortblock you are pulling the engine. I'd be a little more inclined to say you risk it if you had more resources available. But even then i'd still see little point in rebuilding something you can buy so cheap. Back in the day when there was no 5.0 explorers, there was reason to rebuild a 302, but with millions of them sold and wrecked, I just don't see the purpose.

You seem to be receptive to advice, so that's a good start. So many guys come here, tell us what they want to do and ask an opinion, then tell us why we are wrong, they do it their own way, and we never see them again.

 

[trwilliams1]

Well, unfortunately with friends in the business I get to see a lot of homeowner handiwork. There just isn't many guys out there that can build an engine that is as reliable as a factory explorer engine. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone here that has had one fail.

You are building it in your living room, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence (I say that with a smile) and clearly you don't want to do this twice. The fact that you thought ported e7's were a better choice than aluminum and 2 days ago you had a completely different plan doesn't help either. No insult intended, we all have to start somewhere, I just don't think that somewhere is rebuilding a shortblock.
If you botch the head or intake gaskets you can fix that without that much effort anywhere. You fudge the clearances or anything on the shortblock you are pulling the engine. I'd be a little more inclined to say you risk it if you had more resources available. But even then i'd still see little point in rebuilding something you can buy so cheap. Back in the day when there was no 5.0 explorers, there was reason to rebuild a 302, but with millions of them sold and wrecked, I just don't see the purpose.

You seem to be receptive to advice, so that's a good start. So many guys come here, tell us what they want to do and ask an opinion, then tell us why we are wrong, they do it their own way, and we never see them again.

Well I'm outsourcing the machining so I'm in no means doing anything in my apartment then just assembling it once everything is said and done I get what your saying about the 5.0 explorer I looked around couldn't find one within a respectable distance I searched on Craigslist for a while this is all I could find for a decent price and low miles the ported E7s was something I found write ups on during research and is the main reason why I spoke about it on here to get your opinions and why I was quick to take your advice on it don't think I plan on doing anything precision based in my living room as I said before the only reason it was in my apartment was for the initial tear down and assembly once everything is ready to be bolted back together and will be dropped into my fox at my buddies shop. I'm working with what I got it gonna cost more than I anticipated but I'm fine with it this something I've wanted to do for a long time and I'll spend the money if I have to.

 

[mikestang63]

Well I'm outsourcing the machining so I'm in no means doing anything in my apartment then just assembling it once everything is said and done I get what your saying about the 5.0 explorer I looked around couldn't find one within a respectable distance I searched on Craigslist for a while this is all I could find for a decent price and low miles the ported E7s was something I found write ups on during research and is the main reason why I spoke about it on here to get your opinions and why I was quick to take your advice on it don't think I plan on doing anything precision based in my living room as I said before the only reason it was in my apartment was for the initial tear down and assembly once everything is ready to be bolted back together and will be dropped into my fox at my buddies shop. I'm working with what I got it gonna cost more than I anticipated but I'm fine with it this something I've wanted to do for a long time and I'll spend the money if I have to.

Rule #1 in an engine rebuild is cleanliness. Rule #2 is checking and rechcking tolerances-even when a machine shop does the work. Rule #3 is to have the proper tools. Do you have dial bore indicators, calipers, micrometers, ring and bearing filers, piston install collars, good torque wrenches in ft and inch pounds, timing wheel, pushrod length checker, spring hieght checker, valve spring compressor, and engine stand? Rule #4. You need to know what you are doing and have a game plan. One example- I bet you are going to buy the bottom end kit before you have the block machined. What happens if the crank and main journals need to be resized. What size bearings did your crank kit come with?

Any reputable and quality bottom end kit is going to cost around $800-1500 unless you get some cheap, chinese, thrown in a box mismatched crap, Those Summit bargain kits are simply parts thrown in a box. Add in another $500 or so in machine shop work- magnaflux, line boring, cylinder boring, freeze and cam plugs, squaring the deck, installing the pistons on the rods, etc. Then add a few hundred more for the heads. The fact that you had a crankshaft laying on it's side and wanted to port E7's should make you think about this twice.

Best of luck to you though, If you want to tackle this yourself be prepared to spend twice as much as you think it is going to cost. Remember, you always have enough money to do it right the second Unless you are going to spend the money on a decent short block, you will end up spending more money than you think and still not get any more HP than a JY explorer motor. Hell, I'd say get an LMRS assembled short block for $800. At least they come with a warranty and supposedly are assembled by professionals.
Sorry if I come across as harsh. Not trying to- just seen this story about 1000 times.