302 up to 400HP for $2500 Article

bluray · Jun 22, 2005

Have you guys seen this one? Definately sounds interesting. Take a look and let me know what you guys think of this:

http://www.jason.fletcher.net/tech/sherman/sherman.htm

tjm73 · Jun 22, 2005

There's a blast from the past. I haven't seen that article in a LONG time. The cam they used was a little unfriendly for street use IMO. And they used heavy ported iron early 289 castings.

Try this instead. Stock 5.0 cam, AFR aluminum heads, stealth intake, 405 hp and 380 lbs-ft. Plus better driveability. Car Craft 405 HP Stock Cam

Guyfoxbody · Jun 22, 2005

Sure. Easy stuff if your running a carb. Much different with EFI!!

tjm73 · Jun 22, 2005

Guyfoxbody said:
Sure. Easy stuff if your running a carb. Much different with EFI!!

He's rebuilding an '84 Mustang so he'll be using a carb for his car.

Guyfoxbody · Jun 22, 2005

Didn't know that. I sometimes wish I could go carb. Too much for to take on though.

tjm73 · Jun 22, 2005

Guyfoxbody said:
Didn't know that. I sometimes wish I could go carb. Too much for to take on though.

I'm with you. Emissions inspections makes it a non-option for me here in NY. At least until my car is 25 years old anyway. It'll be gone befroe then though and replaced with something else.

MrKwik · Jun 22, 2005

What I find most interesting is the 15-30 HP gain by installing the pistons backwards. Very interesting. I will have to remember that on my next rebuild.

tjm73 · Jun 22, 2005

MrKwik said:
What I find most interesting is the 15-30 HP gain by installing the pistons backwards. Very interesting. I will have to remember that on my next rebuild.

To me that was the most interesting thing in that article.

bluray · Jun 22, 2005

MrKwik said:
What I find most interesting is the 15-30 HP gain by installing the pistons backwards. Very interesting. I will have to remember that on my next rebuild.

I am sure glad I found the article before I put my engine together. One negitive thing tho is that on cold starts there will be a little more piston slap. I don't know if it will be enough to actually cause damage or not tho... anyone have any idea on that? And the article also talks about this only working on the pistons that have the offset pinholes.

tjm73 said:
There's a blast from the past. I haven't seen that article in a LONG time. The cam they used was a little unfriendly for street use IMO. And they used heavy ported iron early 289 castings.

Try this instead. Stock 5.0 cam, AFR aluminum heads, stealth intake, 405 hp and 380 lbs-ft. Plus better driveability. Car Craft 405 HP Stock Cam

But how much will all of those mods cost? Beautiful thing about the setup he had is it was only around $2500. For the mods you mentioned, were they all stock, or was any porting done?

I don't know about you guys but porting fascinates the hell out of me. I won't attempt it until I know what I am doing, but I sure would like to do it before I put my unit together! Anyone have a good how-to on porting and polishing?

tjm73 · Jun 22, 2005

bluray said:
But how much will all of those mods cost? Beautiful thing about the setup he had is it was only around $2500. For the mods you mentioned, were they all stock, or was any porting done?

The car craft article was all out of the box.

In parts they had very little invested.
$1350 Heads
$350 Roller Rockers
$180 Intake
$500 Carb

That's about $2400. They didn't talk about it, but you would need an ignition. MSD has a ready to run distributor that only needs a coil. It's a self contained ignition AND a distributor. Coil and dist would cost about $400.

89MustangGX · Jun 22, 2005

Thanks for the articles.

joelliott · Jun 22, 2005

Thats bogus as hell. Theres no way they got 400HP outa a stock 5.0 with only a head, intake, carb, roller coversion. My 85gt has a roller 5.0HO and its stock puttin out 210hp. The intake might give ya 20 hp., the carb a few more, and the heads (Ive read between 30-60 hp.). Even at its best numbers that way below 400hp.
Whole thing is fishy to me.
Joe E.

vikingpower · Jun 22, 2005

Do you guys think TFS heads and TFS 1.7 stud mount RRs give about the same numbers with a Typhoon (Edelbrock RPM I) intake?

tjm73 · Jun 22, 2005

joelliott said:
Thats bogus as hell. Theres no way they got 400HP outa a stock 5.0 with only a head, intake, carb, roller coversion. My 85gt has a roller 5.0HO and its stock puttin out 210hp. The intake might give ya 20 hp., the carb a few more, and the heads (Ive read between 30-60 hp.). Even at its best numbers that way below 400hp.
Whole thing is fishy to me.
Joe E.

What ever. AFR has a dyno test on their website where a 302 made 422 hp with the smallest Comp XE an dit's barely bigger than the stock cam.

Believe what you want.

RacEoHolic330 · Jun 22, 2005

They're aren't talking rear wheel horsepower, they are talking about 400 brake horsepower. Thats about 350 rear wheel which is definitely a realistic number for a carbed engine.

joelliott · Jun 22, 2005

TJM73, so your sayin a stock 5.0 with a small cam and AFR heads will add 212 HP over the factory numbers (210-230 hp)??? Thats a 100% increase. Am i understanding this right?
Joe E.

5spd GT · Jun 22, 2005

Yes, these articles aren't "bogus" but what is failed to be mentioned is that their is no tranny or accessories driven off the engine to bring the numbers back to down to "real numbers" (rwhp). They still put out the same relatively speaking for what they normally would if you thru a t5, c4, AOD, etc. behind it and run the smog pump/air conditioning unit/power steering/water pump/etc..etc. Plus the more "unstreetable cams" give you bigger power numbers but the name says it all: unstreetable.

Those numbers don't really impress me because they are what they are with no tranny/accessories/not as streetable/etc.

joelliott · Jun 22, 2005

yeah I understand what your sayin. I guess I didnt think accessories ate up that much power.

I was just thinkin of the latest cheepo bad azz 302 article saw a few months ago in a mag. Yeah it only cost $3K but they did stuff like: "we had a nice wieland stealth intake just sittin around in the shop so that didnt cost us anything" kinda crap. And the "we port and polished our heads with our shop tools for free" stuff. Most normal stangers have to buy supplies and parts etc. So the price goes way up.

I guess I have a negitive attitude twords these budget buildup articales.

lol
Joe E.

5spd GT · Jun 22, 2005

joelliott said:
yeah I understand what your sayin. I guess I didnt think accessories ate up that much power.

I was just thinkin of the latest cheepo bad azz 302 article saw a few months ago in a mag. Yeah it only cost $3K but they did stuff like: "we had a nice wieland stealth intake just sittin around in the shop so that didnt cost us anything" kinda crap. And the "we port and polished our heads with our shop tools for free" stuff. Most normal stangers have to buy supplies and parts etc. So the price goes way up.

I guess I have a negitive attitude twords these budget buildup articales.

lol
Joe E.

Yeah I think the entire accessory drive system takes up something like 22-25% of the engines power plus take into account 15% for the t5 or 18-20% for the AOD (relatively speaking) and you get the "regular numbers"

About the negative attitudes towards the budget buildups: Yeah I think the same way because sometimes the "free" stuff they do becomes just a bit to convienent and not practical or likely...and gets some false accusations out there so to say

tjm73 · Jun 23, 2005

joelliott said:
TJM73, so your sayin a stock 5.0 with a small cam and AFR heads will add 212 HP over the factory numbers (210-230 hp)??? Thats a 100% increase. Am i understanding this right?
Joe E.

No that is NOT what I am saying. If you actually go and read the article you will see that the stock 302 they used baselined at 278 hp at 5,200 rpm and 315 lb-ft of torque at 4,100. That's with stock cam and heads and a Stealth carb intake and stock exhuast manifolds.

Then they put on the AFR heads and Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers. They got 382 hp at 6,000 rpm and 368 lb-ft of torque at 4,200, a gain of 104 hp and 53 lb-ft.

Then they added 1.7:1 Roller rockers and got 405 hp at 6,200 rpm and 380 lb-ft of torque at 4,300, a gain of 23 hp and 12 lb-ft of torque.

At least read the article before you apply some kind of off ballence logic.

They added 127 hp with heads, headers, and roller rockers. Not 212. The whole point is you can add boat loads of power with a couple simple cheap mods.

302 up to 400HP for $2500 Article

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