302 vs 5.0 ?!?!? HELP!!

[A66Auto]

Hello, I have a few questions about building my first motor. I have seen stroker kits online and I like the ones from Speed-O-Motive. Has anyone bought from them before? How did you like it? Can you recommend any machine shops in the Sacramento, CA area?


I have a 66 with a 4 speed and right now I have a running 1970 302 from a Torino under the hood. I also have a 94 5.0 motor from a wrecked automatic mustang sitting in my garage. It has never been rebuilt. The problem with the 5.0 motor is that I have a 4 speed and the block does not have a place to screw in the shaft that the z pedal pivots on. Is there a kit or something that can be done so I can use that block or am I better off using the older block if it checks out? What about my flywheel and balancer? I have an old motor and I am assuming that I have the 28 oz. balancer, will I have to use a new 50oz flywheel and balancer or will I be able to use the stuff I already have in the car right now? What will I be able to bolt up to the new block, like the water pump, fuel pump, dipstick, timing chain cover, ECT…?

Thank you

 

[SadbutTrue]

Well, i'll be the first to tell you that despite minor differences in years, a 302 is the same thing as a 5.0. 302 cubic inches = 5.0 L = the same engine with ford. Since you say you are new to engines, I am not sure I would attempt to tackle the late model 5.0 project. These engines, while the same basic design, use several newer technologies that make them more complex/expensive to install into classic mustangs.

You also need to look at a lot more than just a stroker kit. Stroker kits are expensive, and I don't know if you will need it. Weight your options with carburetors, intakes, heads, headers, exhaust, cams, etc. before doing stroker kits. Stroker kits and blowers are big ticket items that are only rarely needed.

If you use the new motor, use the 50 oz, if you use the old, use the 28.

 

[SnwMnkys]

Go with the late model 5.0 block, you will then have the roller cam. You wont with your older block unless you retrofit which is expensive. The clutch thing isnt a problem, plenty of companies have addressed it. This being one wildhorses4x4.com
Im sure theres Mustang sites that sell them too. For $20 its not a big deal. I was planning on ordering some of my 351w long rod parts through speedomotive, i havent heard any complaints from them. Call them up and ask them what they think about the balancing issue, im not sure on it, it looks like all the stuff they sell is for 28oz imbalance.

 

[SandSprite]

They make adapters to use te zbar on a late model block-- thats what I have in my car. If you get a stroker kit, maybe get one that is 28oz imbalance. If your current clutch is only a 10", i'm not sure how well it will do with a 347... If you have a 157tooth flywheel currently, it would be easy to just add a 50oz late model flywheel to that 94 motor. I think the 94 might also have a different location for the dipstick (not thru the timing cover), so check that as well.

 

[geegee]

Q. The problem with the 5.0 motor is that I have a 4 speed and the block does not have a place to screw in the shaft that the z pedal pivots on. Is there a kit or something that can be done so I can use that block or am I better off using the older block if it checks out?

A. California Pony Cars and Windsor-Fox Engineering make pivot adapters. These bolt on to the bell housing wrap around the side of the engine and give you a place to mount the z-bar pivot ball. You can get the CPC pivot adapter at many Mustang shops.

Q. What about my flywheel and balancer? I have an old motor and I am assuming that I have the 28 oz. balancer, will I have to use a new 50oz flywheel and balancer or will I be able to use the stuff I already have in the car right now? What will I be able to bolt up to the new block, like the water pump, fuel pump, dipstick, timing chain cover, ECT…?

A1. Flywheel. There are several approaches for the flywheel. You can buy a new steel billet flywheel in either 157 tooth or 164 tooth variety that is 50 oz-in balanced OR you can use a stock late model 5.0L 157 tooth flywheel and have it redrilled for the early long style clutch OR you can use the 5.0L 157 tooth flywheel with the late diaphragm clutch. If you use this with the early bell housing then you'll need a fork pivot adapter. Windsor-Fox makes these OR you can use the late model 5.0L bell housing, clutch and a cable clutch kit. There are many options as you can see. Once you decide what you want then you simply have to be consistent in your approach. I will list generally the parts I used. This is only one approach and lots of folks will tell you their approach is better. I chose the one I did because it results in a very original looking engine in my '65 fastback.

A2, If you want to use the early accessories then you use the early timing cover, water pump, brackets and pulleys. This requires the use of a conversion harmonic balancer. NPD sells one for your three-bolt pulleys. If you wish to use the mechanical fuel pump with the early timing cover then you have to install a fuel pump eccentric. You could remove the 5.0L cam and have it fitted with the eccentric pin OR you can buy a conversion eccentric from Total Performance.

I used:

California Pony Cars Pivot Adapter
Early Timing Cover, Eccentric and Fuel Pump, Total Performance Eccentric
Three Row Replacement Radiator
NPD Conversion Harmonic Balancer
Ram Clutches 164 Tooth Flywheel (50 oz. steel billet)
Ram Clutches 88502 clutch kit.
'69-'73 351w bell housing, blockplate, starter
'66 stamped frame brackets and saddle style motor mounts (stock '66 convertible).
'64 Galaxie 289 upper radiator hose
'66 Mustang 289 lower radiator hose.
'65 289 Oil Pan and pick up tube. Pan was mounted using 5.0L engine torque spreaders and bolts.
Dipstick is Ford Motorsport replacement for early 289/302.

All other parts used were stock '65 289 Mustang parts.

 

[D.Hearne]

You don't have to remove the roller cam to install a longer drive pin for the fuel pump eccentric. just remove the timing set, and pull the pin and install a longer one. Or locate a stamped steel later model eccentric and just bolt it on.

 

[68stang351]

Just drop in some cubes like a windsor! I love puttin' the screws to the 5.0's around here.

 

[bartman]

I did the 5.0 swap in a 66 coupe. Mustangs plus carries all you need a nd will give you tech assistance. You will need to use your old timing cover, for the dipstick. You will also have to fill the old dipstick hole in the side of the block. It's easy just J B weld it. You will also need your old oil pan because of the change in sump positions. Lots of luck the swap isnt that hard.

 

[GaPonyFarm]

Since its your first project, rebuild the 302. You've got the same power potential from either engine, but with the 302 you won't have to worry about the EFI conversion. Performance parts are abundant for either power plant. Consider a 347 Stroker project if you're planning on a complete rebuild anyway, if not, it might be a waste of money. Save the 5.0 for a later project when you have more experience or use it to learn about EFI and the electronics that go with it. Dropping in that 5.0 would be a huge undertaking for a novice. Do you even have the complete harness and PCM from the donor car?

 

[1995cobraR]

I agree with everything already posted. Is the 1970 302 already rebuilt and running well? I wouldn't put the '94 motor in before rebuilding it. What is your budget? Rebuilding the 94 motor and buying all the new parts to fit the 94 302 into your car may get expensive in the short term. In the long term the roller motor could prove the better choice.

You didn't mention the heads (or code) on the '70 302. The 94 may (or may not) flow better (E7TE?).

I don't think a stroker is that much more expensive when doing a rebuild than staying stock.

Good luck

 

[A66Auto]

Thanks for the replies..

I am not going to go EFI in my car. I know it would be a lot for me to handle and I am going to stay with old fashion carburetion, no matter what block I use. I like it and there is no reason to change.

I don’t know how to read the codes on my heads so any help would be appreciated. They have a 61 or 91 stamped in the corner out side of the valve covers; under the covers there is a big “T” and a plate with 0815 on it.

I want to rebuild either motor, I just want to know what one would be the easiest and best in the long run. If all my stuff from the old motor will bolt up to the new one and only a few mods have to be made, then I will do that, but if I have to get a new flywheel, balancer, clutch, bell housing, radiator and stuff like that, I would like to stay with the old block.

Thanks