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306 solid roller motor, how would you build it?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 95conv5.0
  • Start date Start date Oct 11, 2006
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95conv5.0

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Mar 30, 2005
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#1
  • Oct 11, 2006
  • #1
if i was using a a4 block, should i go ahead and get h beam rods, and forged crank?

or will 5140 forged i beams, and a steel crank hold everything i throw at it?

there will be no boost or nitrous used on this motor only n/a
 

Modular2v

Founding Member
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Oct 11, 2006
#2
  • Oct 11, 2006
  • #2
the a4 block is stronger than a stock block but what but do you really want to be throwing a crank in there that is capable of more hp than the block? No! I see it as a waste of money having a forged crank in anything other than and aftermarket block. If i were you i would get the h beam 3440 rods but stick with a cast crank
 

blkcobra50

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Jul 24, 2006
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#3
  • Oct 11, 2006
  • #3
95conv5.0 said:
if i was using a a4 block, should i go ahead and get h beam rods, and forged crank?

or will 5140 forged i beams, and a steel crank hold everything i throw at it?

there will be no boost or nitrous used on this motor only n/a
Click to expand...

What are your plans and goals with the A4 block? What other parts are you planning on using? App. HP? TQ?
 
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95conv5.0

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#4
  • Oct 11, 2006
  • #4
well the a4 block is rated to 800-1000 hp, but im sure the car wont put out much more then 400 or so, its going to be a 306 12-13-1 comp, afr 185s, victor jr intake, in a coupe car weighing it at 2850lbs, and a good amount of suspension work, im looking for a high 9 low 10 sec capability! and shifting at 7500-8200
 
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95conv5.0

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#5
  • Oct 11, 2006
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ttt
 
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95vert354

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  • Oct 11, 2006
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I don't think Afr 185's are going to be big enough for what you want, to get into the low 10s with a 306 your going to have to have more head,like the 205's and probably turn 7500-8000rpm. Or a 150 shot of juice Just finishing up a 302 n/a build myself, looking for 6.80s in the eigth. I went with the TFS high ports. For what it's worth, I have a forged crank and light weight I beams in my A4. I wouldnt feel right turning 8000 with a cast crank, and I wanted internal balance. Ask 20 people running low 10's at 8000 rpm what kind of crank they are using, and I bet at least 75% say forged.
 

25thmustang

Mustang Master
Sep 5, 2003
2,021
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Montgomery, NY
Oct 11, 2006
#7
  • Oct 11, 2006
  • #7
Spinning 8000+ RPM, Id want good parts. That kind of RPM something goes wrong and our looking at a mess of useless junk!
 
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95conv5.0

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#8
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yea the afr 185s will be ported, the heads will be plenty big enough, thanks guys
 
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95vert354

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#9
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #9
95conv5.0 said:
yea the afr 185s will be ported, the heads will be plenty big enough, thanks guys
Click to expand...

To go 10.0 in a 2900# car, your going to have to make about 575 hp at the rear wheels. Good luck getting 575hp from a N/A 302 with afr 185's.
 

Modular2v

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Oct 12, 2006
#10
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #10
95vert354 said:
To go 10.0 in a 2900# car, your going to have to make about 575 hp at the rear wheels. Good luck getting 575hp from a N/A 302 with afr 185's.
Click to expand...
it wont happen! He needs ALOT more head and spinning 8000rpms he is going to have to do a solid roller setup otherwise the hydraulic lifters will be starved for oil around the 6700 mark or so. The afr 185s are already cnc ported out of the box.....they dont get any better!
 
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95conv5.0

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#11
  • Oct 12, 2006
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Modular2v said:
it wont happen! He needs ALOT more head and spinning 8000rpms he is going to have to do a solid roller setup otherwise the hydraulic lifters will be starved for oil around the 6700 mark or so. The afr 185s are already cnc ported out of the box.....they dont get any better!
Click to expand...
did you read the title to this thread? is says solid roller right in it, and yes afrs do get better, alot better if ported, if you have ever seen the cnc job on afrs its good but not smooth at all, theres alot of work that can be done to these heads....
 
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95conv5.0

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#12
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #12
95vert354 said:
To go 10.0 in a 2900# car, your going to have to make about 575 hp at the rear wheels. Good luck getting 575hp from a N/A 302 with afr 185's.
Click to expand...
it can be done with alot less horsepower with the right suspension!
 

Modular2v

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Oct 12, 2006
#13
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #13
95conv5.0 said:
did you read the title to this thread? is says solid roller right in it, and yes afrs do get better, alot better if ported, if you have ever seen the cnc job on afrs its good but not smooth at all, theres alot of work that can be done to these heads....
Click to expand...
yes i read the title! i made that post at midnight and head my head lodged firmly up my ass
 

Modular2v

Founding Member
Jun 30, 2002
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Oct 12, 2006
#14
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #14
95conv5.0 said:
did you read the title to this thread? is says solid roller right in it, and yes afrs do get better, alot better if ported, if you have ever seen the cnc job on afrs its good but not smooth at all, theres alot of work that can be done to these heads....
Click to expand...
but there is only a nominal amount of improvement to be made on them. . . . if you are going to buy some heads and port on them you should go with something that has more potential! Or just get some afr 205s and slap them on out of the box
 

EMW150

Founding Member
May 22, 2000
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Oct 12, 2006
#15
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #15
Modular2v said:
it wont happen! He needs ALOT more head and spinning 8000rpms he is going to have to do a solid roller setup otherwise the hydraulic lifters will be starved for oil around the 6700 mark or so.
Click to expand...

Hydro-rollers will go alot higher than you think. My 331 has been together since abou 2001 on the same stock Ford hydro-rollers shifting at 7,600 and sometimes 7,800 rpms. Stock volume oil pump with about 55-60 lbs pressure hot.
 

Modular2v

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Jun 30, 2002
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Oct 12, 2006
#16
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #16
EMW150 said:
Hydro-rollers will go alot higher than you think. My 331 has been together since abou 2001 on the same stock Ford hydro-rollers shifting at 7,600 and sometimes 7,800 rpms. Stock volume oil pump with about 55-60 lbs pressure hot.
Click to expand...
really? I have always been told otherwise.Thats interesting a good to know! i have been short shifting my 331 due to $hit valve springs
 

EMW150

Founding Member
May 22, 2000
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1
46
Roaring Spring,PA
Oct 12, 2006
#17
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #17
Modular2v said:
really? I have always been told otherwise.Thats interesting a good to know! i have been short shifting my 331 due to $hit valve springs
Click to expand...

Keep I mind I run the Anderson hi-rev stuff which doesn't have the aggressive style ramps you run into with some custom grounds or like a Comp XE style cam. You can get into trouble if the cam is designed with ultra aggressive ramps. Valve springs are a big deal in mine too. I change them once a year even if they're not floating. That is imperitive to keep you retainers etc in good condition.
 

Modular2v

Founding Member
Jun 30, 2002
3,222
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99
oklahoma
Oct 12, 2006
#18
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #18
EMW150 said:
Keep I mind I run the Anderson hi-rev stuff which doesn't have the aggressive style ramps you run into with some custom grounds or like a Comp XE style cam. You can get into trouble if the cam is designed with ultra aggressive ramps. Valve springs are a big deal in mine too. I change them once a year even if they're not floating. That is imperitive to keep you retainers etc in good condition.
Click to expand...
mine need a valve spring change BAD! i feel them floating around 6300rpm! I need new heads too really. It is a trick flow stage 3 cam so the ramps are pretty aggressive
 

EMW150

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May 22, 2000
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Oct 12, 2006
#19
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #19
Modular2v said:
mine need a valve spring change BAD! i feel them floating around 6300rpm! I need new heads too really. It is a trick flow stage 3 cam so the ramps are pretty aggressive
Click to expand...

Yeah, you'll want to take car of that quick cause it's probably beating up your valvetrain bad. If you can feel them float they must be pretty extreme. When mine start to go I can't hear it or feel it, I just see it in the ET mph. It'll slowly just start losing mph till I change them then it's right back up. I've already gotten 2 mph back just from a valve spring swap.
 

Modular2v

Founding Member
Jun 30, 2002
3,222
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Oct 12, 2006
#20
  • Oct 12, 2006
  • #20
EMW150 said:
Yeah, you'll want to take car of that quick cause it's probably beating up your valvetrain bad. If you can feel them float they must be pretty extreme. When mine start to go I can't hear it or feel it, I just see it in the ET mph. It'll slowly just start losing mph till I change them then it's right back up. I've already gotten 2 mph back just from a valve spring swap.
Click to expand...
wow a 2mph gain in my case would put me a 128.....thats mid 10 second territory
 
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