347 VS 351....the benchrace of a lifetime.

[mstangfrk95GTS!]

Ok heres the deal, the time of reckoning is soon approaching and a buddy that is doing a 351 swap planted a idea in my head.

Im wanting 400hp NA with good drivability....as much good manners as possible.

347 or 351 swap?

In your opinions is the money spent on a 351 swap going to be worth the gain over a 331/347??

and it needs to fit under a stock hood too.

budget is 5k for the motor..., not the longblock, but complete.

and i will be useing a TwEECer and EFI, no carbs.


Tell me what youd build if you were doing it.

 

[Joes95GT]

You could probably get 400 horsepower out of a good, light(er)weight 306 if you spin it to 7000 RPM, and I'm sure it could be plenty streetable. If you are willing to settle for 400 RWHP, the 347 is plenty. Plus, you don't have to replace the few things that you would with the 351.

Joe

 

[xYoung347x]

do a 351 buy used parts, Victor heads, and a big solid roller cam.

 

[xYoung347x]

I did the 347 thing, setting my limit to 5k and come out under 10k. Its too dam expensive.

 

[Joes95GT]

do a 351 buy used parts, Victor heads, and a big solid roller cam.

Victor heads are not going to be anywhere near streetable, and neither is a solid roller cam unless you let it idle at 1500 RPM.

Joe

 

[xYoung347x]

Victor heads are not going to be anywhere near streetable, and neither is a solid roller cam unless you let it idle at 1500 RPM.

Joe

its all in the tuning buddy.

 

[95snoozer]

you said a few things.....

stock hood and 400 hp

347 is for you

 

[mstangfrk95GTS!]

ya thats my thing.....if it isnt enough ill just have to strap on some extra atmosphere.

i cant see how anyone can spend 10k on a 347 unless its got a R block, custom everything and a Race TT setup on it.

my goals are low 12's on street tires, 400 should do that i would think.

sleeper style is the only way to go IMO, thats why the stock hood, esp when i see this one yellow 6er running around with a 5" cowl.

but i am sorta intrigued with the 351 concept.

 

[xYoung347x]

Stroker kit w. machine work... 3,000.00
afr 185 heads w/ rockers & pushrods, 1,900.00
cam and intake 800.00
used bbk longtube w/ h pipe 200.00
C&L 73 MAF with 30injectors 275.00
gasket kit 80.00
FPR 75.00
spark plugs and wires 60.00
Summit radiator 200.00
Powerbond SFI 28oz balancer 190.00
28oz aluminum flywheel 250.00
Total= 7030.00 thats excluding some little crap like bolts, beer, pizza and fluids.(P/S, oil, oil filter, coolant)
Im not including the driveline.
Tremec 900.00
Ram 900 300.00
aluminum DS 100.00
upper and lower control arms 500.00


So please don't tell me it dont come close to 10k.

 

[Grn92LX]

A 351 swap is a waste IMO if your just gonna keep it as a 351. Stroke it to a 408 and put big heads on it if you wanna do a 351 motor. But for just 400rwhp, a 347 is fine. It isnt gonna cost you anywhere neat $10k. I did some pricing and found where I will be having my shortblock built. About $2300 all said and done with a main support. I too am planning a 400rwhp 347 stroker. You can save money by not spending the extra money on a 4340 forged steel crank, it is not needed.

I plan on using ported TW heads because I already have a set of TW heads and they will work really well for what I plan. If not, i'd consider the fti stroker series afr 185's.

 

[xYoung347x]

A 351 swap is a waste IMO if your just gonna keep it as a 351. Stroke it to a 408 and put big heads on it if you wanna do a 351 motor. But for just 400rwhp, a 347 is fine. It isnt gonna cost you anywhere neat $10k. I did some pricing and found where I will be having my shortblock built. About $2300 all said and done with a main support. I too am planning a 400rwhp 347 stroker. You can save money by not spending the extra money on a 4340 forged steel crank, it is not needed.

I plan on using ported TW heads because I already have a set of TW heads and they will work really well for what I plan. If not, i'd consider the fti stroker series afr 185's.

so you're telling me you don't need any of those stuff that I bought to make the 347 work to full potiential? you're not gonna buy heads, manifold, cooling system, balancer, flywheel, fuel system? make up a list thats under 5k with all the supporting parts that will operate with the stroker motor.

 

[1slow95]

I plan on doing a 351 or 393 this winter. I wouldn't put a supercharger/turbo on a 347 unless you plan on building it right. I have a friend with a vortech on his 347 and he's always having some sort of problem. Usually it's a head gasket. For $5K, you might be better off doing a 331 or 306 unless you can find a good deal on the H/C/I. I'll be lucky to keep my 351/393 under $7-$8K

 

[Grn92LX]

so you're telling me you don't need any of those stuff that I bought to make the 347 work to full potiential? you're not gonna buy heads, manifold, cooling system, balancer, flywheel, fuel system? make up a list thats under 5k with all the supporting parts that will operate with the stroker motor.

If you wanna get technical, read along as i save you money First off, most people already have half that crap like maf, injectors, pump, cooling system. Anyway, you didnt need an alum flywheel and also to save money, you coulda had the rotating assembly balanced to 50oz and used stock flywheel and balancer Theres $500. You over paid on the heads and rockers. Afr 185's are about $1300 + $200 rockers + $80 pushrods = about 1600, wheres the extra $300 come from you paid? Theres $300 bringing our total savings to $800 now $3000 shortblock? I assume you spent extra unecessary money on forged stuff for the stock block? I mentioned I got a price for $2300 with a girdle for my shortblock.

 

[mstangfrk95GTS!]

anything ill be doing will be done right, forged all the way, ARP everything...etc...

 

[Joes95GT]

so you're telling me you don't need any of those stuff that I bought to make the 347 work to full potiential? you're not gonna buy heads, manifold, cooling system, balancer, flywheel, fuel system? make up a list thats under 5k with all the supporting parts that will operate with the stroker motor.

Calm yourself killer. It's only a message board.

In my opinion, and I'll speak for Mike (Grn92LX) too, your wrong. On many points.

First, referring to my post. No big solid roller cam will survive on the street with a Victor head. Tuning it is going to do nothing. Victor heads shine from about 7000-10000 RPM. For a car to be streetable, it needs to function from about 2000 RPM. A big solid roller cam will not do that. Streetable also means street legal, which also means emissions legal. Victor heads are no where near emissions legal. Stay in the game.

Secondly, your prices are ridiculous is some (or most) aspects. No one I know would pay 1900 bucks for AFR 185 heads with rockers and pushrods. If you paid that much, I'm sorry you're so sheltered. You don't need a new radiator either. Even your prices on machine work are somewhat skewed. Stay in the game.

He's not going to bust his trans unless he's powershifting. His clutch will be fine assuming it's not stock.

I take it you paid those prices to build your 347? If so, they must have saw you coming...



Joe

 

[Grn92LX]

Big waste of money in a stock block man, especially if your on a budget and making not even close to enough power to justify it!

 

[xYoung347x]

If you wanna get technical, read along as i save you money First off, most people already have half that crap like maf, injectors, pump, cooling system. Anyway, you didnt need an alum flywheel and also to save money, you coulda had the rotating assembly balanced to 50oz and used stock flywheel and balancer Theres $500. You over paid on the heads and rockers. Afr 185's are about $1300 + $200 rockers + $80 pushrods = about 1600, wheres the extra $300 come from you paid? Theres $300 bringing our total savings to $800 now $3000 shortblock? I assume you spent extra unecessary money on forged stuff for the stock block? I mentioned I got a price for $2300 with a girdle for my shortblock. Theres another $700 saved totalling $1500 with you using the 28oz balance

1st off this went from completely stock motor not including a stock aode down to the factor air filter to a 347 with EVERYTHING thats need to take advantage of full potiential of the stroker motor. EVERYTHING is FORGE with a Main Gridle and the Canton 7qt oil pan and pump thats why it cost a little more than 2300. Beside why wouldn't you want to go forge? its dumb not to if you're doing all of this crap anyways. PLUS, the shop I got it machine and balanced was a high quality shop w/ guarantee workmanship so they cost a little more but no biggy. the shop also recommanded to me to have it balanced 28oz instead of 50oz so I listen to them since they know their ***** and only the best for my car. Beside you wanna do it right the first time around so it will cost a little extra. On the heads they are 1350.00 plus upgraded valve springs PLUS SHIPPING! Thats where I got the 1,900.00. Any more questions? You said you about to do a 347 motor, and once you finish you will come back on here and will tell me.. "Young, you are right. Its not cheap to build a stroker motor. I shouldn't take any short cut and I should of listened to you. You are the man."

 

[xYoung347x]

Calm yourself killer. It's only a message board.

In my opinion, and I'll speak for Mike (Grn92LX) too, your wrong. On many points.

First, referring to my post. No big solid roller cam will survive on the street with a Victor head. Tuning it is going to do nothing. Victor heads shine from about 7000-10000 RPM. For a car to be streetable, it needs to function from about 2000 RPM. A big solid roller cam will not do that. Streetable also means street legal, which also means emissions legal. Victor heads are no where near emissions legal. Stay in the game.

Secondly, your prices are ridiculous is some (or most) aspects. No one I know would pay 1900 bucks for AFR 185 heads with rockers and pushrods. If you paid that much, I'm sorry you're so sheltered. You don't need a new radiator either. Even your prices on machine work are somewhat skewed. Stay in the game.

He's not going to bust his trans unless he's powershifting. His clutch will be fine assuming it's not stock.

I take it you paid those prices to build your 347? If so, they must have saw you coming...



Joe

dude, Im not upset at all or fired up. Im just having a general conversation with the people on this board. I just want to share my knowledge with everyone.

 

[mstangfrk95GTS!]

well i figure i can do a badass 347 for the same as a nice 351, and without having to screw with the swap parts

shortblock Keith Craft or DSS: 2500.00

AFR 185's: 1200.00

Rockers: 160.00

Lifters: 150.00

Pushrods: 60.00

Custom cam: 295.00

Timing chain: 40.00

gaskets and Misc: 150.00


thats 4555.00, i know there will be other minor expenses, but not another grand or more.

and ive already got the budget together for the tranny. thats a done deal.

 

[xYoung347x]

Big waste of money in a stock block man, especially if your on a budget and making not even close to enough power to justify it!

I have power to justify me. Im make 375rwhp and 410tq, thats with fuel and timing tune. Im pretty sure if I get a chip program for na and nitrous I will be way over my expectation. Im already shock Im making 375rwhp.