351 Cleveland or Windsor...How can I tell?

bkshaw · Apr 30, 2005

How can I tell of my engine is a 351 Cleveland or Windsor?
I always thought that the Cleveland was a small block and the Windor was a big block...is that true?
Here is my data plate info:

model year: 1972
built at: Dearborn (Dearborn, MI)
bodystyle: Hardtop
engine: 351 CID - 2V "Cleveland" (some "Windsor" units)
consecutive #: xxxxxx
body series: Hardtop - standard trim group
scheduled assy.: May 05, 1972
exterior color: "White"
interior trim: ("Sprint" Trim) Blue cloth w/ White and Vermilion appointments ["White" paint, only]
sales office (DSO): Seattle, WA ("SE")
axle ratio: 2.75:1 "conventional"
transmission: "FMX" automatic

a.vannoy · Apr 30, 2005

Its the other way around Windsor is a small block cleveland is the big block.

a.vannoy · Apr 30, 2005

Quick ID

351 Windsor
5-bolt straight valve covers
radiator hose to the intake manifold
regular 5/8" spark plugs

351 Cleveland
8 bolt 2-plane valve covers
radiator hose does not connect to intake
small 14mm spark plugs

Hack · Apr 30, 2005

a.vannoy said:
Its the other way around Windsor is a small block cleveland is the big block.

The cleveland isn't a big block, but it has larger heads, so it is wider than the windsor. They both share the small block bellhousing pattern with the 302.

65ShelbyClone · May 1, 2005

One way to spot a 351C is the thermostat housing that bolts to the block intead of the intake manifold. Another is the exhaust ports terminate out past the valve cover surface. Post a pic if you're able, then we can I.D. what you have right away.

EDIT: Heres an easy one: the Cleveland has 8 valve cover bolts while a Windsor only has 5.

rbohm · May 1, 2005

you can also tell by the fuel pump mount, the windsor has horizontal bolts and cleveland has vertical bolts.

a.vannoy · May 1, 2005

Hack said:
The cleveland isn't a big block, but it has larger heads, so it is wider than the windsor. They both share the small block bellhousing pattern with the 302.

The 351 cleveland heads will bolt up to a 400 without any mods.
It takes the big block c-6 that makes it a big block.

MattODoom · May 1, 2005

The cleveland is a "mid-block"

C.Harris · May 1, 2005

The 351 Cleveland is not a bigblock despite its size.

slackr · May 1, 2005

a.vannoy said:
The 351 cleveland heads will bolt up to a 400 without any mods.
It takes the big block c-6 that makes it a big block.

The C does share the same head design as the M (351/400), but the M has a taller deck height than the C (just over an inch). The M does take the 385 series 429/460 bell housing bolt pattern while ths C uses the small block one due to it's shorter deck height. The C actually has .3" shorter of a deck height than the W (9.2 for the C, 9.5 for the W, 10.297 for the M). It is the heads of the C that push out the dimensional width of it. Otherwise, the C is as much a 'small block' as the W.
You have to have the small block c6 to bolt to the C and the W alike.
The W has 6 valve cover bolts IIRC, the C does have 8.
The timing cover shroud is cast with the block on the C and the t-stat sets into the top face of it.

351LX · May 1, 2005

a.vannoy said:
The 351 cleveland heads will bolt up to a 400 without any mods.
It takes the big block c-6 that makes it a big block.

My Ford racing catalog lists 289-302-351c-351m-351w-400 as small blocks, so if Ford calls them small blocks who are we to disagree.

65ShelbyClone · May 1, 2005

slackr said:
The W has 6 valve cover bolts IIRC, the C does have 8.

Dang, I just cannot count.

Gud T.B. Blown · May 1, 2005

on top outer corner of the cleveland heads there is either a 2 or 4 cast in.

D.Hearne · May 1, 2005

The Windsors have 6 valve cover bolts, not 5. The 5 bolt covers were FE's. The Cleveland can best be described as a small big block. Big block power in a small block package.

Hack · May 1, 2005

D.Hearne said:
The Windsors have 6 valve cover bolts, not 5. The 5 bolt covers were FE's. The Cleveland can best be described as a small big block. Big block power in a small block package.

Yeeeeaaaahhh!!!

a.vannoy · May 3, 2005

I stand corrected the 351c is a small block belonging to the 335 family, according to my ford books too.

Edbert · May 3, 2005

Only FoMoCo big blocks are the FE and the 385 (Lima) series.

260-289-302-351W = Windsor family
390-427-428 = FE family
351C-400M = 335 family
429-460 = 385 family

So where does the old truck motor (360) fit?

67MustangManiac · May 3, 2005

D.Hearne said:
The Windsors have 6 valve cover bolts, not 5.

No wonder those valve covers were so hard to get off!!

Maniac!

Sicarius428 · May 3, 2005

360 is also a FE along with the 330, 352 and 410.
Kevin

65ShelbyClone · May 3, 2005

67MustangManiac said:
No wonder those valve covers were so hard to get off!!

Maniac!

Yeah, but not half as tough as the installation!

351 Cleveland or Windsor...How can I tell?

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