351C Power Steering Pump

70Mach351c · Apr 28, 2009

One other question about my inherited rigged-up Mach1:

I cannot seem to find the right parts for mounting a power steering pump on a 351 Cleveland in a 69/70. The car I have was assembled from two cars. The original, had a Cleveland with a Windsor swapped in, while a donor had the Cleveland now in it, and other goodies. I'm unsure as to which car had what options used, outside of the engine. I'm quite sure the PS setup is, um, 'engineered' from bracketry on a 351 Windsor. It leaves the pump belt off-line, and frankly a worry.

NPD seems to list parts for a car with AC, which I don't have. Does that matter here?

Which should I choose? I found a correct stamped bracket, but the bolt and hardware coming from behind escapes me. Is there a spacer involved?

Help/pics would be appreciated.

2+2GT · Apr 28, 2009

There may be a spacer, and if you get the proper hardware kit from AMK or one of their distributors, it'll be in the kit.

You should be able to get the 70 stuff from a dealer who has used parts.

Cupid · Apr 30, 2009

I'm at work so I don't have pics with me, but I know for sure that you are going to have to use a spacer. The A/C bracket acted as a spacer on mine until I removed it. Once I removed it, I went with a round aluminum spacer from Lowes to place the P/S pump back to the original position. Of course you need the P/S bracket that the P/S mounts to. I'll see if I have some pics of what I did when I get home. Good luck.

Clevorguy · Apr 30, 2009

Here is a pic from my stock 351c setup in a 70.

I can take better pics tonight if you want, but there are spacers in there. I could even sell the brackets + spacers to you if you want. Cheap. I have no need for the 351c anymore.

TTOCCO · May 7, 2009

70Mach351c said:
One other question about my inherited rigged-up Mach1:

I cannot seem to find the right parts for mounting a power steering pump on a 351 Cleveland in a 69/70. The car I have was assembled from two cars. The original, had a Cleveland with a Windsor swapped in, while a donor had the Cleveland now in it, and other goodies. I'm unsure as to which car had what options used, outside of the engine. I'm quite sure the PS setup is, um, 'engineered' from bracketry on a 351 Windsor. It leaves the pump belt off-line, and frankly a worry.

NPD seems to list parts for a car with AC, which I don't have. Does that matter here?

Which should I choose? I found a correct stamped bracket, but the bolt and hardware coming from behind escapes me. Is there a spacer involved?

Help/pics would be appreciated.

I am restoring a 70 Mach I with a 351C w/air & power steering and am having the same issues trying to find the correct p/s bracket and a/c brackets. I have the complete set of original 1970 shop manuals and the Jim Osborn orange books and there is no specific pictures or descriptions for the 351C engine with p/c & a/c. in addition, NPD doesn't show anything for the 351 Cleveland. I will have to resort to taking pictures of actual cars and the first car show I see. Let me know what you find. thanks. ttocco

70Mach351c · Jul 27, 2009

Clevorguy said:
...I can take better pics tonight if you want, but there are spacers in there. I could even sell the brackets + spacers to you if you want. Cheap. I have no need for the 351c anymore.

Now that I have the guts to work on an otherwise working front section - correcting 'engineered' solutions for radiator, fan and PS pump - I've rediscovered the thread I wrote.....
Thanks, Clevorguy. I could use a couple more pics, some that show the pulleys more close up. Especailly want to see how the PS pump hooks up to the fan, behind the alterntor, and the backspace on the fan pulley. BECAUSE I HAVE NONE OF THAT. My belts are routed fan-alt-crank, and PS-crank. No wonder the belt I bought won't fit, and the mounting hardware is short!
I need a good shot of the crank pully; I suspect my alternator is on the right track with the wrong route.

chockostang · Jul 27, 2009

You folks give me a call, I'll get ya Straightened out on the CC Bracket for the Female Pump, The Straight up (Regular Male) Brackets, the Variables involved.

Dan

Classic Mustang Disc Brake Conversions and Power Steering

Platonic Solid · Jul 27, 2009

My 351C is supposed to have A/C, but since I don't have all the components, I'm just using a spacer between the Steering Pump and Head for now. I used a 1/2"-13 standard hex nut as a spacer. All pullys (fan - crank - steering pump) line up perfectly. The Hex nut is 0.450" thick. I chased the Hex Nut thread out with a 7/16" drill so it wouldn't bind on the steering pump bolt thread.

Note: above assumes 1970 pump and brackets are similar to 71-73.

Or you could spend $13 and buy the spacer: (image linked to mustangsunlimited)

View attachment 250273

Power Steering Pump Bracket-to-Block Spacer for 1967-1970 Mustang and Cougar.

Measures 1-1/4 x 1/2". This spacer goes between the power steering pump and the head at the adjusting bracket. Mostly found on cars without air conditioning.

70Mach351c · Jul 27, 2009

My current setup

70Mach351c said:
Especailly want to see how the PS pump hooks up to the fan, behind the alterntor, and the backspace on the fan pulley. BECAUSE I HAVE NONE OF THAT. My belts are routed fan-alt-crank, and PS-crank. No wonder the belt I bought won't fit, and the mounting hardware is short!

Here are some pics of the current setup:

Is this properly routed?
Note the PS pump pulley, the engineered bracket from a Windsor, and the socket in line behind the spacer in question.
View attachment 250247

I could live with this, especially since I have for two years since I got it. I just would like to set it up right if I can. Not concourse, mind you, just....right. The PS pump is slightly angled, so I'd like to correct that.

Is it worth the fuss?

Scott

Platonic Solid · Jul 28, 2009

I'm not sure how you seem to have gotten the alt pulley to line up with the fan pulley.
1st crank pulley closest to engine runs fan and power steering pump.
2nd crank pulley runs alt.
3rd crank runs A/C.

Do you still have the power steering pump mounting bracket that belongs to this engine?

I'm currently putting mine together too, but my biggest issue in this area is getting the belt length right.

70Mach351c · Jul 28, 2009

Platonic Solid said:
I'm not sure how you seem to have gotten the alt pulley to line up with the fan pulley.
1st crank pulley closest to engine runs fan and power steering pump.
2nd crank pulley runs alt.
3rd crank runs A/C.

Do you still have the power steering pump mounting bracket that belongs to this engine?

I'm currently putting mine together too, but my biggest issue in this area is getting the belt length right.

It looks as if I correct the PS pump mount (I have the correct bracket), all of the accessories would line up! I know that's wrong. the Alternator looked fine -!
The fan-alt-crank is on the rearmost pulley. Can't get the PS behind it. Now we're into a big 'ol mess. I know that the Cleveland engine is a replacement for a swapped-in Windsor (original Cleveland car), and the current PS bracket is engineered from the Windsor block version, so what else is Windsor (Crank Pulley? Fan belt pulley?)

I've half a mind to stop screwing with it and instead try to better align the PS pump (it's about 2-3 degrees off line) I could get a spacer made to replace the socket....

PS - Belt Length - take a string, run it along the pathand measure the length, adding an inch for deeper placement in groove. Belt serial has width and length for it's model number, so adapt what you have and take it to the parts store (local, not big chains - they need to think with their computer, and it never works).

Platonic Solid · Jul 28, 2009

Here's what my 73 looks like:
I ended up using a 9510 power steering belt as it is just a bit longer than the specified 9505 belt. Also, oddly, the 9510 belt was $13 and the 9505 was $21.

Edit: Also, I really think you've got the wrong PS mounting bracket. Clevorguy's and mine look the same. Yours looks different.

Edit2: You might want to double check that thermostat. See this thread: http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/783075-thermostat-necessary.html

Edit3: Your fan pulley is also incorrect. If it was deeper and you use the correct PS bracket (and spacer), then things will line up properly.

70Mach351c · Jul 28, 2009

Platonic Solid said:
Edit: Also, I really think you've got the wrong PS mounting bracket. Clevorguy's and mine look the same. Yours looks different.

Edit2: You might want to double check that thermostat.

Edit3: Your fan pulley is also incorrect. If it was deeper and you use the correct PS bracket (and spacer), then things will line up properly.

1: Known issue. note the plate bolts at one point on the water pump. I have the correct plate, it doesn't line up with anything.
2: Saw your thread, went to MustangsUnl. Saw mine listed for 351C, and your more open one, for a 351C, but by a performance part maker.
3: I figured. However, the close clearance with the crank pulley in front of it looks the same on mine as yours. If I correct the PS mount, It'll line up, but the ALT has nowhere to go; it's still on the back line with the fan.
IF I correct the fan pulley, it will not line up on a pulley on the crank.

Here's the best pic I can take:
IMG_0725 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

More can be seen at the link under my signature.

Platonic Solid · Jul 29, 2009

OK, so you custom modified the PS bracket from a Windsor and used the fan Pulley from a Windsor, correct?

Did you also modify, or use from the Windsor, the atl. bracket and/or spacer?

70Mach351c · Jul 29, 2009

Platonic Solid said:
Did you also modify, or use from the Windsor, the atl. bracket and/or spacer?

I would not self-inflict myself. Besides, I would not show off this masterpeice of peicemeal if it were mine. I'm the new owner trying to sort it out. Hell, I'm starting to doubt the crank pulley!
I figured the pulley was wrong, but it still lines up on the back crank pulley. As for the alternator, I haven't a clue. the bracket looks similar to the other pictures.

I'm about to take an alternate tack, and just make sure the PS is better aligned and then leave it alone. I was never out for concours anyhow.

RacerJames · Apr 23, 2021

I'm resurrecting this ancient thread because it came up in a search and helped me finish the adaptation of a slightly newer pump on the 351C in my '71 Grande race car.
Thought I would share.
I chose this pump (from a later '70s 302) because it's a lot lighter, and physically fits. I had to make the water pump to PS pump bracket, (used the CAD design method - cardboard aided design-), but as you can see, it was easy.
Yes, I know I'm using the wrong bolt hole in the head, but because of the design of the aluminum bracket on the pump,it just fit better that way.
I'll post more pictures once I get the belt on.

RacerJames · Apr 25, 2021

Got the new bracket painted and installed. It took one spacer behind the aluminum pump bracket (a used pilot bushing fit just right), and a spacer on the top water pump bolt of the fabbed bracket. Easy-peasy.

I have a collection of pulleys which have accumulated over the years, so it was a case of sorting through them until I found a setup that works. The crank pulley is the original for '71, and, I believe, very common. The water pump pulley is from a late '70s F-150, 302, same as the PS pump.
When I bought the pump I kept the belt for measuring. Someone else had cut it before I got it. That worked out well too. The parts store people didn't know how to look up a belt by measurement. They soon learned, and we got it right the first time.
My challenge now is the 11/16" flare fitting on the gear. The pressure hose from the donor has a 1/2" inverted flare fitting. I searched the internet for an adapter, with no luck. So, I ordered the pressure hose for a '71 Mustang, and plan to take both hoses to the hydraulic hose shop in town and have a custom one made from the two.

RacerJames · May 6, 2021

So I chose not to molest the hydraulic hoses and instead used the 5/8 to 1/2 (The '71 hose has a 5/8 female on one end) inverted flare adapter I had in my collection. The combined hoses go all over the engine compartment, but I figure that's just a poor man's PS cooler.
Took it out and raced it on the 1st of May and it worked like a champ! Unfortunately the nut behind the wheel doesn't work as well and we finished 10th of 18. Had lots of fun though!

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