Pro's: A lot more potential as far as hp and tq output than the 4.6. Saying that you've got a 5.4 powered Stang.
Fact:
In 2V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
In N/A 3V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
Those are facts...
Fact:
In 2V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
In N/A 3V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
Those are facts...
That being said, with the PROPER mods the 5.4 is ALWAYS going to have more power when both are equally modded.... Not to mention that you have more cubic inch potential with the 5.4... Its the same as the 331/351 argument the pushrod guys have. Sure you have to mod a few things to make a 5.4 work but why the hell not when your going to have to pull a 4.6 to make it at best a 5.1 when its stroked.....
You are completely 100% Wrong. I am tired of arguing this and proving it. The old pushrod engine is completely different. The Pushrod engine favours the Bore and has over a 4" Bore diameter. The old 5.0 for example was a 4" Bore to 3" stroke. The 4.6 shows slight favour to the Bore( 3.55" Bore to 3.54" Stroke ). The 5.4 heavily favours the stroke.
For a performance engine, the 5.4 needs FI and a minimum of 3V heads or the best N/A 4V heads to compete with the performance capabilties of an equal 4.6. The best performing modular engine is the 5.0L Big-Bore, without question.
Stock Shortblock 4.6L 3V N/A engines have achieved 415 RWHP in a S197 Mustang( 2005+ ). Other built 4.6L N/A 3V are getting near the 430 RWHP in street trim. Using the Australian 5.4 3V intake, the current best N/A 5.4 3V engine is flirting with 390 RWHP.
What it boils down to is that the 5.4L:
1) Heavier rotational parts( Crank, Rods ) = Less HP
2) Greater friction due to increases stroke = Less HP
3) Heavier rotatational pars and greater friction = Less RPM potential = Less HP
4) The best 2V & 3V heads DO NOT FLOW enough air for the 5.4L. The best 2V heads barely flow enough for the 4.6L. This is due to valve shrouding because of the small Bore Spacing.
That is not counting the extra weight that the 5.4 adds to the nose of the car.
The facts don't lie.
If you are looking at a 5.4, it better have 4V heads or 3V heads with Forced Induction, otherwise you are better off with a 4.6. If you are looking for the best performance, go with a 5.0L Big-Bore. The 5.0L Big-bore uses the stock 4.6L crank but increases the Bore to 3.7".
Go back and read my post..... I SAID that when you build them with the CORRECT mods..... 4.6 heads on a 5.4 will choke it.... JUST THE SAME AS 302 based heads on a 351. (ie, heads that flow well for a 302 likely won't work on a 351 b/c of the extra stroke, rotating weight and such) THEREFORE: Both the 5.4 and 351 need BIGGER heads than their smallers siblings.
That being said, a nice company called trick flow (I imagine you've heard of them) has recently made the FIRST aftermarket head for 2v motors. With these heads I imagine the power limits will be raised 10 fold therefore bringing the 5.4's back up to par to where they should be. But since the stock 2v castings can only be ported so much and are still very limited the 5.4 has never had a fair shake.
I am still a firm believer that their is no replacement for displacement.
To elaborate a bit more....... The rotating assembly's when built correctly will be very light and tough..... who the f builds a motor with stock parts and expects it to make a chit load of hp?
I'm not trying to sound like a know it all ass but I actually agree with you as far as there are no 5.4's out there that make the same power as a 4.6 with the same mods. Someone needs to get ahold of the trick flow heads, have them ported all to hell and run them on a 5.4 to see what they can really do.
The thing about putting the 5.4 Triton in there is the fact that it is a truck motor and designed for a specific rpm range. Ford did make a really good N/A 5.4 4V before ... the Cobra R! I don't know why hey didn't keep that engine around for the 2010 GT? I mean that N/A 4V 5.4 had a lot of potential and came stock with 385hp! Now with the 5.4 Triton - some upgrades (tune, intake manifold, heads, crank etc) it can be lightened up and molded into a really good all around engine :SNSign:
The thing is people have tried to make a performance N/A 5.4L 2V. Their best efforts last time I checked was at 296 RWHP in a 5 Spd Mustang. The closest 4.6L Mustang I know with similar mods is at 346 RWHP which also happens to be with a 4R70W auto transmission.
The 5.4 3V attempts are a little closer to the little 4.6L brother but are still falling significantly short.
The 5.4L 4V that was in the Cobra R was a great engine, however it was trumped by the 5.0L 4V Cammer. The Cammer from Ford has more restrictive heads and a more restrictive intake, same compression ratio and the same cams as the Cobra R but is rated at 450 HP.
A variant of the Cammer( now with Direct Injection ) will find it's way into 2011 Mustang and possibly into the 2010 model. That is an engine I would much rather have...
Go back and read my post..... I SAID that when you build them with the CORRECT mods..... 4.6 heads on a 5.4 will choke it.... JUST THE SAME AS 302 based heads on a 351. (ie, heads that flow well for a 302 likely won't work on a 351 b/c of the extra stroke, rotating weight and such) THEREFORE: Both the 5.4 and 351 need BIGGER heads than their smallers siblings.
That being said, a nice company called trick flow (I imagine you've heard of them) has recently made the FIRST aftermarket head for 2v motors. With these heads I imagine the power limits will be raised 10 fold therefore bringing the 5.4's back up to par to where they should be. But since the stock 2v castings can only be ported so much and are still very limited the 5.4 has never had a fair shake.
I am still a firm believer that their is no replacement for displacement.
To elaborate a bit more....... The rotating assembly's when built correctly will be very light and tough..... who the f builds a motor with stock parts and expects it to make a chit load of hp?
I'm not trying to sound like a know it all ass but I actually agree with you as far as there are no 5.4's out there that make the same power as a 4.6 with the same mods. Someone needs to get ahold of the trick flow heads, have them ported all to hell and run them on a 5.4 to see what they can really do.
Cool, ya I heard about the Cammer. So the Triton motor just was designed totally different than the Cobra R 5.4 4V? I Thought they just used 4V heads and lighter/better components... or was the bore/stroke different
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