4.6 to 5.4

[manny]

what i have is a 2000 gt with a 4.6 automatic tranny, what i want to do is put in a 5.4 2v motor. will the 5.4 bolt up to the headers and tranny and everything else of the 4.5 2v motor? will the stock 4.6 intake fit on the 5.4? is there anything else that might be different? any help would be great

 

[1stanger1]

yes the trans will work they used that trans on V6's and V8's and i am pretty sure i have seen them bolted to a few 5.4's the intake ....no wont fit not wide enough

the headers on the other hand i am not sure i guess it would be easier if you just looked at them but i am sure someone will reply here and tell you wether they will or not

i musta read about 900 threads asking the same questions in the past year

 

[Rougestang]

Yes your stock exhaust manifold will bolt right to the 5.4. You may have to slightly bend or grind off a little bit here ant there, but generally speaking they'll bolt up to a 5.4. Also, the engine is a little wider, and you'll have to modify your mid pipe to widen it about an 1/8 of an inch If I'm not mistaken. If you have long tube headers, you'll have to bend them alittle, because they will come in contact with the fire wall. The blocks are almost identical between the 4.6 and 5.4, only difference being the deck height on the 5.4 is taller. Hence, why the 4.6 intake manifold won't fit. There are some adapter plates available, as far as I know to allow you to use the 4.6 intake manifold. Your stock wire harnesses should work, and of course the motor mounts. One thing to keep in mind, a 5.4 is a great choice, but there are pro's and con's.

Pro's: A lot more potential as far as hp and tq output than the 4.6. Saying that you've got a 5.4 powered Stang.

con's: without a good tune, your not gonna gain a whole lot. Dyno's I've seen, they drop off in hp after 4500 rpms, but the torque production is much more. mainly because of the stock intake (probably from an f-150 or E-150) was designed to do "truck things".

If you decide to switch ( I'm putting an 4.6 out of an 04' GT in my car in the next couple of days) make sure to keep us updated. There are some little things you'll need to pick up here and there, but search the web, it's been done before, and It'll be done again.


GOOD LUCK!

 

[Dragstr05]

All the info you need.

Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Mustang Forums

 

[TGJ]

Pro's: A lot more potential as far as hp and tq output than the 4.6. Saying that you've got a 5.4 powered Stang.

Fact:

In 2V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
In N/A 3V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.

Those are facts...

 

[Mike97gt]

Fact:

In 2V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
In N/A 3V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.

Those are facts...

agreed waste of money doing a 5.4 2v swap.. your better off going 4.6 4v

 

[squeak93]

Fact:

In 2V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
In N/A 3V trim, 4.6 > 5.4.
Those are facts...

I agree with the 2v but the 3v are both totally different animals. With the proper tuning and a different intake there is no reason that a 3v 5.4 should not work. My truck has the 5.4 3v and I drove many 3v 4.6 trks before and hated them compared to the bigger bro. Its all in the set up. You can't put truck parts in a car and expect them to work like car parts. Just doesn't happen that way.

That being said, with the PROPER mods the 5.4 is ALWAYS going to have more power when both are equally modded.... Not to mention that you have more cubic inch potential with the 5.4... Its the same as the 331/351 argument the pushrod guys have. Sure you have to mod a few things to make a 5.4 work but why the hell not when your going to have to pull a 4.6 to make it at best a 5.1 when its stroked.....

 

[TGJ]

That being said, with the PROPER mods the 5.4 is ALWAYS going to have more power when both are equally modded.... Not to mention that you have more cubic inch potential with the 5.4... Its the same as the 331/351 argument the pushrod guys have. Sure you have to mod a few things to make a 5.4 work but why the hell not when your going to have to pull a 4.6 to make it at best a 5.1 when its stroked.....

You are completely 100% Wrong. I am tired of arguing this and proving it. The old pushrod engine is completely different. The Pushrod engine favours the Bore and has over a 4" Bore diameter. The old 5.0 for example was a 4" Bore to 3" stroke. The 4.6 shows slight favour to the Bore( 3.55" Bore to 3.54" Stroke ). The 5.4 heavily favours the stroke.

For a performance engine, the 5.4 needs FI and a minimum of 3V heads or the best N/A 4V heads to compete with the performance capabilties of an equal 4.6. The best performing modular engine is the 5.0L Big-Bore, without question.

Stock Shortblock 4.6L 3V N/A engines have achieved 415 RWHP in a S197 Mustang( 2005+ ). Other built 4.6L N/A 3V are getting near the 430 RWHP in street trim. Using the Australian 5.4 3V intake, the current best N/A 5.4 3V engine is flirting with 390 RWHP.

What it boils down to is that the 5.4L:

1) Heavier rotational parts( Crank, Rods ) = Less HP
2) Greater friction due to increases stroke = Less HP
3) Heavier rotatational pars and greater friction = Less RPM potential = Less HP
4) The best 2V & 3V heads DO NOT FLOW enough air for the 5.4L. The best 2V heads barely flow enough for the 4.6L. This is due to valve shrouding because of the small Bore Spacing.

That is not counting the extra weight that the 5.4 adds to the nose of the car.

The facts don't lie.

If you are looking at a 5.4, it better have 4V heads or 3V heads with Forced Induction, otherwise you are better off with a 4.6. If you are looking for the best performance, go with a 5.0L Big-Bore. The 5.0L Big-bore uses the stock 4.6L crank but increases the Bore to 3.7".

 

[manny]

ok so now you have me thinking about a well built 4.6. lets see how about a well built 4.6 short block with a nice pair of ported heads, some nice streetable cams with some long tubes and a bullitt/trick flow style of intake should run nicely. it is my daily driver and it is automatic with a shift kit and yes i'm running 3:73's

 

[SaleenGT2001]

buy a s/c. you'll make more power and do it cheaper and more reliable!

 

[squeak93]

You are completely 100% Wrong. I am tired of arguing this and proving it. The old pushrod engine is completely different. The Pushrod engine favours the Bore and has over a 4" Bore diameter. The old 5.0 for example was a 4" Bore to 3" stroke. The 4.6 shows slight favour to the Bore( 3.55" Bore to 3.54" Stroke ). The 5.4 heavily favours the stroke.

For a performance engine, the 5.4 needs FI and a minimum of 3V heads or the best N/A 4V heads to compete with the performance capabilties of an equal 4.6. The best performing modular engine is the 5.0L Big-Bore, without question.

Stock Shortblock 4.6L 3V N/A engines have achieved 415 RWHP in a S197 Mustang( 2005+ ). Other built 4.6L N/A 3V are getting near the 430 RWHP in street trim. Using the Australian 5.4 3V intake, the current best N/A 5.4 3V engine is flirting with 390 RWHP.

What it boils down to is that the 5.4L:

1) Heavier rotational parts( Crank, Rods ) = Less HP
2) Greater friction due to increases stroke = Less HP
3) Heavier rotatational pars and greater friction = Less RPM potential = Less HP
4) The best 2V & 3V heads DO NOT FLOW enough air for the 5.4L. The best 2V heads barely flow enough for the 4.6L. This is due to valve shrouding because of the small Bore Spacing.
That is not counting the extra weight that the 5.4 adds to the nose of the car.

The facts don't lie.

If you are looking at a 5.4, it better have 4V heads or 3V heads with Forced Induction, otherwise you are better off with a 4.6. If you are looking for the best performance, go with a 5.0L Big-Bore. The 5.0L Big-bore uses the stock 4.6L crank but increases the Bore to 3.7".

Go back and read my post..... I SAID that when you build them with the CORRECT mods..... 4.6 heads on a 5.4 will choke it.... JUST THE SAME AS 302 based heads on a 351. (ie, heads that flow well for a 302 likely won't work on a 351 b/c of the extra stroke, rotating weight and such) THEREFORE: Both the 5.4 and 351 need BIGGER heads than their smallers siblings.

That being said, a nice company called trick flow (I imagine you've heard of them) has recently made the FIRST aftermarket head for 2v motors. With these heads I imagine the power limits will be raised 10 fold therefore bringing the 5.4's back up to par to where they should be. But since the stock 2v castings can only be ported so much and are still very limited the 5.4 has never had a fair shake.

I am still a firm believer that their is no replacement for displacement.

To elaborate a bit more....... The rotating assembly's when built correctly will be very light and tough..... who the f builds a motor with stock parts and expects it to make a chit load of hp?

I'm not trying to sound like a know it all ass but I actually agree with you as far as there are no 5.4's out there that make the same power as a 4.6 with the same mods. Someone needs to get ahold of the trick flow heads, have them ported all to hell and run them on a 5.4 to see what they can really do.

 

[TGJ]

Go back and read my post..... I SAID that when you build them with the CORRECT mods..... 4.6 heads on a 5.4 will choke it.... JUST THE SAME AS 302 based heads on a 351. (ie, heads that flow well for a 302 likely won't work on a 351 b/c of the extra stroke, rotating weight and such) THEREFORE: Both the 5.4 and 351 need BIGGER heads than their smallers siblings.

That being said, a nice company called trick flow (I imagine you've heard of them) has recently made the FIRST aftermarket head for 2v motors. With these heads I imagine the power limits will be raised 10 fold therefore bringing the 5.4's back up to par to where they should be. But since the stock 2v castings can only be ported so much and are still very limited the 5.4 has never had a fair shake.

I am still a firm believer that their is no replacement for displacement.

To elaborate a bit more....... The rotating assembly's when built correctly will be very light and tough..... who the f builds a motor with stock parts and expects it to make a chit load of hp?

I'm not trying to sound like a know it all ass but I actually agree with you as far as there are no 5.4's out there that make the same power as a 4.6 with the same mods. Someone needs to get ahold of the trick flow heads, have them ported all to hell and run them on a 5.4 to see what they can really do.

You build a 4.6L the same way( light weight parts ) as you build a 5.4L, use the same heads, same parts, at the end of the day, the 4.6L will be the better performance engine. There is NO 2V or 3V head available that will correct that airflow problem for the 5.4, including Trick Flow's new 2V head. The new TF heads ported do not flow as well as ported 3V heads.

Ford proved with the modular engines that bigger is not always better. There is a reason why Ford never produced a performance N/A 5.4L 2V or N/A 5.4L 3V engine. Every performance 5.4L ever produced had FI, or 4V heads or both. The reason for that is what I pointed out above.

 

[agentl074]

The thing about putting the 5.4 Triton in there is the fact that it is a truck motor and designed for a specific rpm range. Ford did make a really good N/A 5.4 4V before ... the Cobra R! I don't know why hey didn't keep that engine around for the 2010 GT? I mean that N/A 4V 5.4 had a lot of potential and came stock with 385hp! Now with the 5.4 Triton - some upgrades (tune, intake manifold, heads, crank etc) it can be lightened up and molded into a really good all around engine :SNSign:

 

[TGJ]

The thing about putting the 5.4 Triton in there is the fact that it is a truck motor and designed for a specific rpm range. Ford did make a really good N/A 5.4 4V before ... the Cobra R! I don't know why hey didn't keep that engine around for the 2010 GT? I mean that N/A 4V 5.4 had a lot of potential and came stock with 385hp! Now with the 5.4 Triton - some upgrades (tune, intake manifold, heads, crank etc) it can be lightened up and molded into a really good all around engine :SNSign:

The thing is people have tried to make a performance N/A 5.4L 2V. Their best efforts last time I checked was at 296 RWHP in a 5 Spd Mustang. The closest 4.6L Mustang I know with similar mods is at 346 RWHP which also happens to be with a 4R70W auto transmission.

The 5.4 3V attempts are a little closer to the little 4.6L brother but are still falling significantly short.

The 5.4L 4V that was in the Cobra R was a great engine, however it was trumped by the 5.0L 4V Cammer. The Cammer from Ford has more restrictive heads and a more restrictive intake, same compression ratio and the same cams as the Cobra R but is rated at 450 HP.

A variant of the Cammer( now with Direct Injection ) will find it's way into 2011 Mustang and possibly into the 2010 model. That is an engine I would much rather have...

 

[agentl074]

The thing is people have tried to make a performance N/A 5.4L 2V. Their best efforts last time I checked was at 296 RWHP in a 5 Spd Mustang. The closest 4.6L Mustang I know with similar mods is at 346 RWHP which also happens to be with a 4R70W auto transmission.

The 5.4 3V attempts are a little closer to the little 4.6L brother but are still falling significantly short.

The 5.4L 4V that was in the Cobra R was a great engine, however it was trumped by the 5.0L 4V Cammer. The Cammer from Ford has more restrictive heads and a more restrictive intake, same compression ratio and the same cams as the Cobra R but is rated at 450 HP.

A variant of the Cammer( now with Direct Injection ) will find it's way into 2011 Mustang and possibly into the 2010 model. That is an engine I would much rather have...

Cool, ya I heard about the Cammer. So the Triton motor just was designed totally different than the Cobra R 5.4 4V? I Thought they just used 4V heads and lighter/better components... or was the bore/stroke different

 

[Mike97gt]

Go back and read my post..... I SAID that when you build them with the CORRECT mods..... 4.6 heads on a 5.4 will choke it.... JUST THE SAME AS 302 based heads on a 351. (ie, heads that flow well for a 302 likely won't work on a 351 b/c of the extra stroke, rotating weight and such) THEREFORE: Both the 5.4 and 351 need BIGGER heads than their smallers siblings.

That being said, a nice company called trick flow (I imagine you've heard of them) has recently made the FIRST aftermarket head for 2v motors. With these heads I imagine the power limits will be raised 10 fold therefore bringing the 5.4's back up to par to where they should be. But since the stock 2v castings can only be ported so much and are still very limited the 5.4 has never had a fair shake.

I am still a firm believer that their is no replacement for displacement.

To elaborate a bit more....... The rotating assembly's when built correctly will be very light and tough..... who the f builds a motor with stock parts and expects it to make a chit load of hp?

I'm not trying to sound like a know it all ass but I actually agree with you as far as there are no 5.4's out there that make the same power as a 4.6 with the same mods. Someone needs to get ahold of the trick flow heads, have them ported all to hell and run them on a 5.4 to see what they can really do.

You dont get it.. what TGJ is saying is 100 percent right.. all modulars suffer from a tiny bore this problem can not be fixed with any mods on a N/A application. A 5.4 is a waste because as he said the stroke is too long compared to the bore and with the same tiny valves your starving it for air anyways.. So your extra cubes is doing nothing for you.


The best way to go if your going to swap is a big bore 4.6 with 4v heads.

 

[TGJ]

Cool, ya I heard about the Cammer. So the Triton motor just was designed totally different than the Cobra R 5.4 4V? I Thought they just used 4V heads and lighter/better components... or was the bore/stroke different

The Cobra R had the same bore/stroke as any other 5.4L. It was built with special parts though. They have the best flowing 4V heads Ford ever offered and those heads are extremely difficult to find. The intake manifold is extremely rare as well.