400 HP 5.0 With A Stock Cam

tjm73 · Nov 18, 2004

I pop into the Classic Forum from time to time because I love the older cars as much as I like my newer Stangs. When I saw this I knew you guys would want to see it.

It's carb'd
It's ridiculously simple
It's easily copied

400 HP 5.0 With A Stock Cam

DukeGnarley · Nov 18, 2004

good stuff

CochinoFilipino · Nov 18, 2004

Will an explorer intake support 400HP? Too bad they didn't include a dyno sheet. I'd like to see how the low end looks.

mustangbrad · Nov 18, 2004

CochinoFilipino Will an explorer intake support 400HP? Too bad they didn't include a dyno sheet. I'd like to see how the low end looks.

If you scroll toward the bottom to the "Sidebar Articles" (it's right above the "Sources")there is a link to the dyno sheet.

tjm73 · Nov 18, 2004

CochinoFilipino said:
Too bad they didn't include a dyno sheet. I'd like to see how the low end looks.

ask and yee shall recieve...

Max Power · Nov 18, 2004

I remember the article from over a year ago. It has been mentioned from time to time here in other threads as well.

tjm73 · Nov 18, 2004

I had never heard of it, but it's good stuff.

blue66tang · Nov 18, 2004

I wondure what thoughs heads would do on my engine. Anybody want to venture a guess. I have a victor Jr intake, trw pop up pistons, 12.5 compresion, comp cams roller rockers, cam with specs of (duration IN 300, EX 314) Lift (IN .600, EX .593) Lobe spep of 106 degrees, heavily reworked heads (not sure how much, but enough that the intake ports where way bigger than the victory jr intake ports,and larger valves), and finaly a mighty demon 750.

My guess i am putting out about 350-400 right now. Maybe a little less since i have done no tuning to the carburator, just bolted it on.

blue66tang · Nov 18, 2004

Farily cheap too, Only 1375 for a pair. Or is that bare heads.

tjm73 · Nov 18, 2004

blue66tang said:
I wondure what thoughs heads would do on my engine.

Go here http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ford_dyno.htm and check out what they have already built a tested. There is a real 302 with 455 hp, a 347 with 574. Those heads would be too small. You would be better with 185cc at least.

That price is per pair, assembled.

Fostang · Nov 18, 2004

Why is it so hard to believe you can have good idle quality with a stock roller cam?

They are excellent cams retard it 4 degrees to move the power band up and add some 1.7 rr's there you go.

Fostang · Nov 18, 2004

blue66tang said:
I wondure what thoughs heads would do on my engine. Anybody want to venture a guess. I have a victor Jr intake, trw pop up pistons, 12.5 compresion, comp cams roller rockers, cam with specs of (duration IN 300, EX 314) Lift (IN .600, EX .593) Lobe spep of 106 degrees, heavily reworked heads (not sure how much, but enough that the intake ports where way bigger than the victory jr intake ports,and larger valves), and finaly a mighty demon 750.

My guess i am putting out about 350-400 right now. Maybe a little less since i have done no tuning to the carburator, just bolted it on.

It's not all about how big and bad the heads are it's about velocity.

Velocity gets the air and fuel mixture inside the combustion chamber.

Otherwise you make no hp and it puddles up.

CochinoFilipino · Nov 18, 2004

Looks good. So anyone know if the Exploder intake would be compatible with those heads? How big a TB and MAF would I need? And would 24lb injectors flow enough at the top?

Thanks,

blue66tang · Nov 18, 2004

Fostang said:
It's not all about how big and bad the heads are it's about velocity.

Velocity gets the air and fuel mixture inside the combustion chamber.

Otherwise you make no hp and it puddles up.

Thats true, but i was just curious to what you guys thought, and i believe my engine is being held back right now by my heads. Actualy the guy that built the bottom end, and heads for me(my brother, hes an machinist/engine builder)even said that if i realy want my engine to perform it needs some good heads.

beanplant · Nov 18, 2004

Sign me up..... I'm saving up money for AFRs, and I think that just sold the idea for me. I've already got a nice cam in mine. Not a roller though...
-Shaun

D.Hearne · Nov 19, 2004

blue66tang said:
Thats true, but i was just curious to what you guys thought, and i believe my engine is being held back right now by my heads. Actualy the guy that built the bottom end, and heads for me(my brother, hes an machinist/engine builder)even said that if i realy want my engine to perform it needs some good heads.

Your brother's right, heads do make the motor. And AFR's aren't the only good aftermarket ones out there. My Canfields are just as good as AFRs. Fostang---- my 331 idles at 600 rms with a Ford Z303 roller and 1.7 rockers.

tjm73 · Nov 19, 2004

Fostang said:
Why is it so hard to believe you can have good idle quality with a stock roller cam?

They are excellent cams retard it 4 degrees to move the power band up and add some 1.7 rr's there you go.

I think Hot Rod magazine, and others like them, have built up this belief that to make real power you need an aftermarket cam. All those build ups with big power numbers for years and years and years builds a mindset amongst enthusiests that you NEED a cam to make good power. "Stock sucks" How many times have we seen that in print?

I wonder what a little more lift with similar to stock cam timing would do.

Those AFR's shine right up to .600" lift. BUT from .500"-.600" of lift the cfm is only 243 at .500" and 245 at both .550" and .600". Opening much past .500 doesn't look like it'd do much good.

Now I was recently looking at the Comp Cams website and they have an Xtreme Energy cam with nearly stock cam timing and .512" lift with 1.6 rockers or .544" with 1.7 rockers. I want to know what that would do to the power. It'd definitely take better advantage of the flow potential in the heads. I bet 400 hp and 400 ft/lbs would be do-able.

Max Power · Nov 19, 2004

tjm73 said:
I think Hot Rod magazine, and others like them, have built up this belief that to make real power you need an aftermarket cam. All those build ups with big power numbers for years and years and years builds a mindset amongst enthusiests that you NEED a cam to make good power. "Stock sucks" How many times have we seen that in print?

I wonder what a little more lift with similar to stock cam timing would do.

Those AFR's shine right up to .600" lift. BUT from .500"-.600" of lift the cfm is only 243 at .500" and 245 at both .550" and .600". Opening much past .500 doesn't look like it'd do much good.

Now I was recently looking at the Comp Cams website and they have an Xtreme Energy cam with nearly stock cam timing and .512" lift with 1.6 rockers or .544" with 1.7 rockers. I want to know what that would do to the power. It'd definitely take better advantage of the flow potential in the heads. I bet 400 hp and 400 ft/lbs would be do-able.

That's because they have a pre-roller mindset. Roller can give you good performance specs with great idle quality, which is what the factory wants. To get the same lift and duration from a flat tappet cam from the old days, the idle quality wouldn't be acceptable by mfg standards.

Old flat tappet factory cams usually did suck.

tjm73 · Nov 19, 2004

Stock Cam v. Comp Cam

I got the specs for both the F1ZE OEM cam (used in the article) and the smallest Comp Cams Xtreme Energy Cam (the XE264HR-14, pn 35-349-8)

F1ZE:
Intake - 276 degrees of duration at .006"
Exhaust - 266 degrees of duration at .006"
Lobe Sep - 115.5 degrees
Lift - .445" w/ 1.6 Rockers, .473" w/ 1.7 Rockers

35-349-8 Comp Cams:
Intake - 264 degrees of duration at .006"
Exhaust - 270 degrees of duration at .006"
Lobe Sep - 114 degrees
Lift - .512" w/ 1.6 Rockers, .544" w/ 1.7 Rockers

Very similar with optimized ramp profiles on the Comp Cams camshaft.

Fostang · Nov 19, 2004

D.Hearne said:
Your brother's right, heads do make the motor. And AFR's aren't the only good aftermarket ones out there. My Canfields are just as good as AFRs. Fostang---- my 331 idles at 600 rms with a Ford Z303 roller and 1.7 rockers.

It's probably carbed.......

400 HP 5.0 With A Stock Cam

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