400+HP/Torque

[Yellwstang21]

Hey guys, I am currently looking to buy/build another 302 for my 65 mustang. I was wondering if any of you guys knew some set-ups for a 302 that would get me 400+hp/torque? I know that stroking the motor is probably the easiest way to go but I want some other ideas besides stroking if possible.

My car has a T-5 (which I will be replacing or upgrading to G-Force) tranny with 3.73 gears in an 8.8 rearend. I am still learning the ropes to building engines so if you have some combos/suggestions please be as specific as possible

I appreciate all advice,etc. thanks!

Artie

 

[mustangdave]

Aftermarket aluminum heads such as A.F.R. are almost mandatory. Stroking would be the most streetable in a 302 but you could use the heads with a supercharger. That is an expensive way to go. Probably about $6,500 for everything and about half for a stroker if you do all the work yourself. That is probably conservative because these builds always nickel and dime you to death.

 

[iskwezm]

Try this Artie for a non stroker buildup.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/1999/10/400horse/index.shtml

 

[Yellwstang21]

Thanks Iskwezm

I just havent been able to decide on which way to go stroker wise. Crate, short block, or long block. If I was going to go anything except crate I would need advice from you guys on what to throw in the blocks to reach my goals.

What are some highly regarded stroker companies. And if going short block or longblock is cheaper. What kind of parts would you throw into those engines?

 

[D.Hearne]

400+ is relatively easy in an aftermarket headed 302, but 400 ft/lbs of torque? You're going to have to stroke it to get that figure.

 

[Yellwstang21]

On that note, which stroker to go for? =/

 

[Route666]

I've heard nothing but positive feedback about DSS Racing. Also from reading on their services and facilities they seem to be on top of building smallblock Ford motors. As an example, they use a CNC machine to blueprint their blocks, if you choose to have it done.

 

[D.Hearne]

On that note, which stroker to go for? =/

Just me personally, I like the 3.25" stroker better than the 3.4". The 3.25 puts less stress overall on the block than a 3.4" does. Now if you're talking about putting all this in an aftermarket block like a Dart, then I'd go with a 3.4". The Dart block ( and I think there's one or two other brands) are much stronger than the stock blocks.

 

[SoCalCruising]

I am currently in the process of building a 331 in my garage. The shortblock is mocked up and this where you see the difference between building a 302 vs. stroker. After I finished profiling /polishing the rods, I only had two cylinders to notch, and I probably didn't REALLY have to even do that as I had about .075" clearance - I was shooting for a minimum of .100", so I just had to touch the cylinder bottoms with a burr. Otherwise, it's just like building a 302. This isn't rocket science, although it takes time, patience and some study - if you don't already have some knowhow.

My personal goals are 425hp and similar torque. The trick will be making it at my designated RPM (5600-5800 RPM). I bought all the components individually, not in kit form, because I couldn't find the exact stuff I wanted in a kit. If you aren't as picky - and you don't have to be, you can acquire good parts at a very reasonable price. I would recommend that you first see if your present block is re-usable. If so, then just buy a stroker kit from Scat - 9000 series crank, I-beam rods and SRP slugs would be fine. As stated, above, good aftermarket heads are a must for your power level. Canfield (for you D.Hearne ;-) ), AFR, Edelbrock or Twisted Wedge heads will all get you to 400hp on a 331.

If you are looking for a real budget short or long block, try Central Coast Mustang (www.centralcoastmustang.net).

 

[65fb302v8]

ive been looking for those numbers as well. i dont know that much about engine builds but im learning. i have a 302 and looking at my possibilities i found the 347 stroker kit. is there anything you would reccomend on this kit? i really dont know that much and ill have to have someone do it for me. how would 400 hp at the fly wheel translate to the whels? i have a c4 and an 8 in rear end. how much do you think a build like this would cost? including parts and labor. all help appreciated

 

[D.Hearne]

This is what mine consists of: Late 80's roller 5.0 block, Eagle cast 3.25" crank, Eagle SIR rods, SRP forged flattops, Ford Racing Z303 roller cam, Comp Cams 1.7 roller rockers, Canfield heads w/1.94-1.60 valves, 57 cc chambers ( milled .060 from the 5.0 I had them on before) Shelby type Tri-Y headers for the early Stangs, Intake is a repop Ford 3X2 high rise dual plane topped with 3 Holley 250 cfm carbs. With a wide ratio Toploader backed up with a 3.73 geared 8.8 rear in my 3800 lb Ranger, it runs mid 13's, and makes it's power from 1500 to 6500 rpms. It idles at 700rpms and is completely streetable. I also added a Mustangs Unlimited main girdle to help with the block in containing the whole thing.

 

[washMO66]

This combo makes my car go fast on the street or the strip... with no reliability issues in two + years

Haven't had it on the chassis dyno but based on ET and set up I would say I'm getting close to if not more than 400 at the wheels

late model 302 Roller block, sonic checked all walls, oven bake, shot blast and tumbled. In an effort to enhance exterior appearance, much time was spent massaging the block with grinding bits to remove slag, cast flashings etc. the entire inside of the block was smoothed to help speed oil return as well. Probe main girdle re-enforces the mains.


Lunati Iron Crank 3.425 stroke
Lunati street / race rods 5.4" length fitted with ARP nuts
KB hypereutectic flat domes w/ 6.5cc reliefs, machined off .010" to achieve zero deck
Clevite bearings
All ARP hardware
BHJ billet crank damper
Pioneer flexplate
Probe girdle
Canton 7 qt pan
Comp cams aluminum roller rockers 1.6:1
Holley laser shot 9mm plug wires
Comp cam Xtreme Energy XE274HR 35-518-8 hydraulic roller Cam Duration @.050 224 – 232, valve lift .555 - .565, lobe separation angle 112 degrees
AFR 185 heads ported and polished by Joe Mondella (documented flow charts)
MSD Pro billet distributor
Hooker super comp ceramic coated long tubes 1 5/8” primary, 3” collectors
Weiland aluminum water pump
Port Matched Victor JR Single Plane intake manifold
Elgin high volume pump and timing set
Holley blue fuel pump w/ regulator
Mighty Demon 650 carb (flows 753CFM wet)
MSD 6AL box, blaster 2 coil
10.8:1 COMPRESSION
Powermaster one wire alternator

Currie 9" rear end w/ Detroit tru trac 3:70 gears
6 point NHRA legal cage / 5 point safety harness
TCP Sub-frame connectors
TCP Solid Motor mounts
2500 Stall, Built C-4 tranny
Total Control Products Upper control arms w/ 620lbs Mustangs Plus 1” coils / sway bar
Reverse Eye 5 leafs / sway bar
Aluminum radiator
Large tranny cooler
mechanical fan

 

[Credzba]

Mine runs exactly that at the flywheel

So, if you want 400 at the wheels you'll need to do more.
Heres my setup that dyno'd 400 torque and 400hp at about 5000 rpm.

afr 185 heads
347 stroker block.
Mild Crane cam (don't have numbers here);
Holley 750 dbl-pumper.
Edelbrock performer intake.
MSD ignition.

I think thats it.

Would have cost me about 500$ more for roller cam, but I was as high as I wanted to go dollar wise, perhaps with a roller cam you could get 400 at the wheels, I don't know.

 

[SoCalCruising]

With a T-5/9", you will lose about 15-17% power between the flywheel and the wheels. 400 RWHP is tough naturally asperated with a power peak under 6K. If you have the right parts and want to make power over 6K, then 400 RWHP becomes much more doable. Torque won't change much, at all, though.

If a 347, you must take great care in mounting the support for the oil ring. Tweaking this when installing the rings is thought to a big reason for poor oil control. Even some 331 pistons use this support ring and the same applies there. Probe and Mahle make the only 331 pistons I know of that don't use the support (because wrist pin is out of the oil ring land on these two slugs). 347 should also use a gridle. You can consider it optional on a mild 331. Other than that, the choices are huge.

This is the best book I've found to use as a guide to building a low-buck 302 or 347:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/002-2816438-3017601?v=glance&s=books
I highly recommend it.

 

[HistoricMustang]

400+ is relatively easy in an aftermarket headed 302, but 400 ft/lbs of torque? You're going to have to stroke it to get that figure.

Agree. The HP figure is somewhat easy following the Shelby set up plus aftermarket heads, long tube header, upgraded carb. That kind of torque would be tough.

Get the RPM's up to build HP and forget about torque with the Ford small block. Do the torque things with running gear!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

 

[Yellwstang21]

Here was my thinking so far of course I have yet to decide on brands and such yet..

302 roller block stroked to 347

10:1 pistons... though ive heard if I get a custom cam which im thinking about doing i can run pump gas with over 10:1

AFR 185s

Air Gap or Weiand Stealth

Custom cam?(maybe)

holley carb


If you can think of a place to upgrade ill take suggestions. Or brand names or specifics that would make my combo work. Thanks

 

[D.Hearne]

My 331 runs on pump gas, Premium that is. 93 octane, sometimes less if I retard the timing some. Comp Ratio is 10.4 to 1.

 

[65fb302v8]

how much power do you think you'll get with the 347 stroker kit?