So knowing what I know now compared to stages of cams..i.e. stage 1, 2 ,3 ect...I know exactly what is needed for my or any set up.... its all about usable cam profile based on heads used, flow, displacement, and intake... sometimes you read the descriptions and it tells you rpms, stall to use or other helpful tools...but those are just shelf grinds.... optimization is the key and you can broaden your power curve and power by selecting the correct tining events and build a custom cam pretty easily... don't get me wrong...off the shelves are good for mild bolt ons or upgrades but to truly tailer to your combo a custom grind is definitely needed..
400HP 2V N/A....Going back to my roots....
- Thread starter Yel2002GTAuto
- Start date
So now that we better understand cam characteristics, let's talk about how to select a cam based on engine specs you are building...
Max piston speed for a solid street strip build with good forged internals is 4500 ft per minute... very reliable is 4000 ft per minute.... so here is the basic math...
Stroke x desired rpm / 6...
So for a stock 281 the stroke is
3.543 so x say 7000rpms = 24,801...then divide by 6 = 4133.5 ft per min...
So for my 5.3l build the stroke is 3.75 x 7000 /6 = 4375 ft per minute which is in a safe threshold...
Now knowing where the PI intake likes peak power is around 6100 tops you add about 500 to 600 rpm for shift points so around 6600 to 6700 rpms... which would be around 4100 feet per minute...
So knowing what cams to go with for peak is around 240 244 range for optimal balance with engine speed and PI intake as example..
Ed
Max piston speed for a solid street strip build with good forged internals is 4500 ft per minute... very reliable is 4000 ft per minute.... so here is the basic math...
Stroke x desired rpm / 6...
So for a stock 281 the stroke is
3.543 so x say 7000rpms = 24,801...then divide by 6 = 4133.5 ft per min...
So for my 5.3l build the stroke is 3.75 x 7000 /6 = 4375 ft per minute which is in a safe threshold...
Now knowing where the PI intake likes peak power is around 6100 tops you add about 500 to 600 rpm for shift points so around 6600 to 6700 rpms... which would be around 4100 feet per minute...
So knowing what cams to go with for peak is around 240 244 range for optimal balance with engine speed and PI intake as example..
Ed
Question:
Is this going to amount to anything? What's the goal here? Are you about to start building an engine?
Is this going to amount to anything? What's the goal here? Are you about to start building an engine?
So in theory... the cam for the stoker to optimize power and tq should come in around 108 LSA, 240 to 244 duration with a lift of .600... since the ported TFS heads flowed peak to .600 lift that would maximize the power from 4000 rpms for peak tq and maximize peak power to 5900 to 6100 rpms....... makes sense one you use the formulas, see real world testing and results, and know the flow numbers for the heads...
Ed
Ed
Goal is to be building soon....I have some of the valvetrian components already, just deciding on some of the final parts to use and will have L&M Engines build the shortblock... resleave the WAP block to 94mm and use some of my existing parts for the build...I was going to start the build about a year ago with a 5.0 boss block but Ford Racing had on back order for pat 2 plus years now..plus tons of other 2v parts are hard to find or backorded as well...goal is to be building soon as soon as I get the crank and rods...which are backorderd as well..
My switch to a different brand but was just researching and sharing my findings at this point...plus this gave me time to pull apart the car and detail it from top to bottom...hopefully I get her up and finished soon...
My switch to a different brand but was just researching and sharing my findings at this point...plus this gave me time to pull apart the car and detail it from top to bottom...hopefully I get her up and finished soon...
So I selected my profile for what cams I want to use...108lsa, 240/246 duration .050 and .610 lifts using dual pact valve springs and GT 500 rockers as these weigh 5grams less than normal rockers and have 25% better oiling.... hopefully I can get all the parts in then next several weeks..
So there is a great video by Unity Mostorsports Garage on YouTube search - Camshaft Lobe Separation Angle: The Untold Truth of LSA!! How to Pick LSA the right way@DavidVizard
This was another testing video for LSA only with same cam specs and shows how it performed on a 2 valve...
Basically picked up 12-15hp going from a 114plus LSA down to a 112 LSA... then picked up another 10-14hp going from a 112 to 108lsa...
Basically gained 20 to 30 more HP just from the LSA change...
I belive most cam companies design there cams towards smoother idles with the intent of a stage 2 or 1 cam NA that is still inline with adding a supercharger, turbo chargers or other type of power adders.... Looks like cam companies never really tested their products to get max NA power .... most of their cams are geared for normal bolt ons.... now most of the cams will fit under stock heads... for those that have ported heads, TFS Heads or rebuilt engines, you are really leaving a lot on the table with an off the shelf cam..
For a 108lsa, you will likely need notched pistons but you can notch with the heads off or have the pistons notched when you do a rebuild...
Take a look at this video and you will be pleasantly shocked at the results... just didn't pick up power in the top end... picked up 20-30 hp and tq throughout the graph... same type of testing like Richard Holdener did on the other video i described... plus David Vizard discusses as well... great stuff..
Ed
This was another testing video for LSA only with same cam specs and shows how it performed on a 2 valve...
Basically picked up 12-15hp going from a 114plus LSA down to a 112 LSA... then picked up another 10-14hp going from a 112 to 108lsa...
Basically gained 20 to 30 more HP just from the LSA change...
I belive most cam companies design there cams towards smoother idles with the intent of a stage 2 or 1 cam NA that is still inline with adding a supercharger, turbo chargers or other type of power adders.... Looks like cam companies never really tested their products to get max NA power .... most of their cams are geared for normal bolt ons.... now most of the cams will fit under stock heads... for those that have ported heads, TFS Heads or rebuilt engines, you are really leaving a lot on the table with an off the shelf cam..
For a 108lsa, you will likely need notched pistons but you can notch with the heads off or have the pistons notched when you do a rebuild...
Take a look at this video and you will be pleasantly shocked at the results... just didn't pick up power in the top end... picked up 20-30 hp and tq throughout the graph... same type of testing like Richard Holdener did on the other video i described... plus David Vizard discusses as well... great stuff..
Ed
Also, looking at ms3 pro now as this is a fully controllable after market computer..you can basically tune your car on the fly, change any or all setting, and run flex fuels and hook up wide bands directly..love this technology...supposed to be way faster processor so better drivability as well..cool stuff..
Hi all....been a minute since I have posted. So...I finally found a great job and can re-engage on my process to rebuild my engine soon. Economy sucks and good jobs are scarce. Interviewed for over a dozen positions over the past 9 months and finally found the right fit... looking to posting and interacting with everyone....
Ed
Ed
89ripper
Founding Member
Normal bolt on engines don't make max N/A HP.
That is the nature of a stock/mostly stock build.
Max N/A HP requires Max HP parts, not just the camshaft.
Totally agree with you brother... just was pointing out that even with Max HP parts and builds, there were no off the shelf camshafts that utilized specs for these types of builds... nobody really tested or put up numbers when done... I have known several engine builders and tuners that helps those order aggressive cams to suit their builds but most with custom engines only used off the shelve cams... stage 3 to 5... the lifts and LSAs on those were really robbing them of power based on their engine mods...... Plus only a few tested Compression Ratios over 11 or 12 to 1 so not many knew how high they could go... pump gas safely with 2v Aluminum block... 12 to 1 with right custom cam profile... 11 to 11.6 to 1 safe all day with proper tuning..... most stayed around 10.5 to 1 or lower....
Given the number of combinations available to build an engine, it is no wonder that most OTS camshaft don't achieve max potential.
You would have to have a catalog of hundreds of thousands camshafts to meet every variant. Which is why when "most" people build a max effort build, or a serious street engine build, they pay the extra $ to get a custom cam.
Which is what I did on my build. There were simply no cams on the shelf that came close.
