5.0 power RPM range...

Pokageek · Apr 1, 2006

Right now my mods are as stated in my sig. Most of my power seems to come on all at once between 2500-4500, wanes down and drops dead on it's face around 5400-5500. My wheels fry between 3000-4500 because the power comes on so quickly. In spinning of course, I am losing momentum. If I shift to second floored, the car slides sideways big time..

Can any of y'all recommend a cam/intake combo (of course I would also get a better tune better than than I have now)that would spread out this power surge of the motor on a longer curve and also wind out higher?..without extreme loss of low end as well?? Which cam? Which intake?

I was thinking TFS track heat intake but no idea which cam? Any other suggestions or is the 5.0 just destined to not have the widest powerband..? I know LCA's would probably help too.

droptopford 5 0 · Apr 1, 2006

Pokageek said:
Right now my mods are as stated in my sig. Most of my power seems to come on all at once between 2500-4500, wanes down and drops dead on it's face around 5400-5500. My wheels fry between 3000-4500 because the power comes on so quickly. In spinning of course, I am losing momentum. If I shift to second floored, the car slides sideways big time..

Can any of y'all recommend a cam/intake combo (of course I would also get a better tune better than than I have now)that would spread out this power surge of the motor on a longer curve and also wind out higher?..without extreme loss of low end as well?? Which cam? Which intake?

I was thinking TFS track heat intake but no idea which cam? Any other suggestions or is the 5.0 just destined to not have the widest powerband..? I know LCA's would probably help too.

wtf... that was wierd, it posted without me posting, but anyways, i know that your street intake definately is killing your upper power band. most people complain about the trick flow street dying at exactly where its advertised- 5500 rpms. i would not know a good combo cam and intake for you, but i do like where your head is at with the t/f track heat intake... nice choice :-D

Pokageek · Apr 1, 2006

Thx. I will probably go that direction. Just for the cam though...I'd like the usable powerband to be from 2000-6500..lol..dunno if that is possible.

wytstang · Apr 1, 2006

I would look into the mass air flow sensor first, you may be pegging it.

95vert354 · Apr 2, 2006

wytstang said:
I would look into the mass air flow sensor first, you may be pegging it.

Nice catch, I was thinking the same thing

Grn92LX · Apr 2, 2006

Pokageek said:
Thx. I will probably go that direction. Just for the cam though...I'd like the usable powerband to be from 2000-6500..lol..dunno if that is possible.

First off, if you are going to want your powerband a itle higher, are you prepared to GEAR the car accordingly? Those tiny 3.55's will NOT cut it for a 6500 rpm heavy vert like yours.

I would do an FTI or hitech motorsports custom grind cam, valve springs, either a track heat upper or an rpm manifold and 4.10 gears. If money is no object, sell that 65mm tb and go 75mm but thats not a big deal right now as opposed to the other things i listed.

Do you use a tweecer? I see you're using 24lb injectors and a stock mass air.

Pokageek · Apr 2, 2006

Grn92LX said:
First off, if you are going to want your powerband a itle higher, are you prepared to GEAR the car accordingly? Those tiny 3.55's will NOT cut it for a 6500 rpm heavy vert like yours.

I would do an FTI or hitech motorsports custom grind cam, valve springs, either a track heat upper or an rpm manifold and 4.10 gears. If money is no object, sell that 65mm tb and go 75mm but thats not a big deal right now as opposed to the other things i listed.

Do you use a tweecer? I see you're using 24lb injectors and a stock mass air.

Thanks for the comments! I am assuming you are saying that with 3.55's my low end will be unacceptable. I see your point but there are two problems with that:

#1 4.10's are going to rev out too high for me on the beltway.
#2 I don't want my first gear any shorter.

I'd probably go with 3.73's or 3.90's I guess if I had to..But in moving the powerband higher, I am wondering how much higher that combo you suggested would move it..like in what range do you think Grn92LX? Will it widen the powerband also? Rather than it all coming on so rapidly within A ("a" not THE) 1500-2000 range?

On the chip. I went custom, no tweecer. I have a very basic tune right now that needs tweaking.

zZsKyZz · Apr 2, 2006

I have 4.10's with a shiftkit and converter.. It helps out alot and allows me to have my power at a better range, still below 1500 I don't have tons of power, but If I launch the car [one foot on the brake while the other foot on the gas brings up the rpms] then let off the brake at about 1200-1600 I am able to launch pretty well. Then the power normally lasts until about 5600ish.

Hope that mighta helped.

Grn92LX · Apr 2, 2006

Pokageek said:
Thanks for the comments! I am assuming you are saying that with 3.55's my low end will be unacceptable. I see your point but there are two problems with that:

#1 4.10's are going to rev out too high for me on the beltway.
#2 I don't want my first gear any shorter.

I'd probably go with 3.73's or 3.90's I guess if I had to..But in moving the powerband higher, I am wondering how much higher that combo you suggested would move it..like in what range do you think Grn92LX? Will it widen the powerband also? Rather than it all coming on so rapidly within A ("a" not THE) 1500-2000 range?

On the chip. I went custom, no tweecer. I have a very basic tune right now that needs tweaking.

No I didn't mean your low end won't be good. Your low end will be fine. I meant you need to gear the car for the powerband if you want everything out of it. You will NEED a 4.10 gear for the combo and rpm range you were looking at. A 4.10 will not rev too high on the parkway. Look at my car for example as to how you need to gear the car for the powerband. I run WAYY too small 3.73 gears and i'm crossing through the traps appx 1000 rpm's too soon. The 4.30 gears i'm planning will help out a lot and get me through the traps at the rpm I need which is around 6800 rpm.

Its all in the cam as to how high the combo will want to rev. Well, the manifold plays a role too, but the cam plays more of a role. At the very minimum I would do a custom cam and valve springs. You'll end up with a combo similar to my old combo. I had tw heads, street heat manifold and an fti cam. The street heat was too small, I needed an rpm manifold with a ported lower and 410's.

Why do you feel the need for low end torque? Do you race the car?

Pokageek · Apr 3, 2006

Grn92LX said:
No I didn't mean your low end won't be good. Your low end will be fine. I meant you need to gear the car for the powerband if you want everything out of it. You will NEED a 4.10 gear for the combo and rpm range you were looking at. A 4.10 will not rev too high on the parkway. Look at my car for example as to how you need to gear the car for the powerband. I run WAYY too small 3.73 gears and i'm crossing through the traps appx 1000 rpm's too soon. The 4.30 gears i'm planning will help out a lot and get me through the traps at the rpm I need which is around 6800 rpm.

Its all in the cam as to how high the combo will want to rev. Well, the manifold plays a role too, but the cam plays more of a role. At the very minimum I would do a custom cam and valve springs. You'll end up with a combo similar to my old combo. I had tw heads, street heat manifold and an fti cam. The street heat was too small, I needed an rpm manifold with a ported lower and 410's.

Why do you feel the need for low end torque? Do you race the car?

This is great stuff. I don't race the car at the track..well I will maybe a couple of times but that is all. I want the car to be able to blow away others at a light within the legal limits, take off on the beltway occasionally on a clear night, and not rev out too high on trips. The idea of putting 4.10's is exciting. I wonder what the car would be revving at 65? How far will 1s t gear go?..and with that and a good cam what could I get in the quarter? Would it hook wit hstreet tires as I would be driving on the street mainly? Sorry for all the Q's..

I will look int othe custom cam. What is the difference between the "R" manifold and the track heat? Thanks alot!!

Black95GTS · Apr 3, 2006

Pokageek said:
This is great stuff. I don't race the car at the track..well I will maybe a couple of times but that is all. I want the car to be able to blow away others at a light within the legal limits, take off on the beltway occasionally on a clear night, and not rev out too high on trips. The idea of putting 4.10's is exciting. I wonder what the car would be revving at 65? How far will 1s t gear go?..and with that and a good cam what could I get in the quarter? Would it hook wit hstreet tires as I would be driving on the street mainly? Sorry for all the Q's..

I will look int othe custom cam. What is the difference between the "R" manifold and the track heat? Thanks alot!!

First thing, an R manifold's runners are way too short for your combo. You really have to rev the thing to get your money's worth out of that manifold. Thats where the 4.30s would come in handy.

If you want a broad as hell power band like what you mentioned, the best thing I can think about for you would be a TMOSS special cobra lower with a 2.2 Kenne Bell strapped on top. You're looking for the power band of an '03-'04 Cobra and the twin screw is pretty much the best bet to get there. Attaining that kind of powerband N/A is pretty damn tough.

They do have a propensity to heat soak after a while, so I wouldn't push it really hard on the highway.

Adam

Ada,

final5-0 · Apr 3, 2006

Pokageek said:
I want the car to be able to blow away others at a light within the legal limits, take off on the beltway occasionally on a clear night, and not rev out too high on trips. The idea of putting 4.10's is exciting. I wonder what the car would be revving at 65? How far will 1s t gear go?

I got a couple of things for you

1) Use this to figure rpm to mph
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/608.shtml

2) http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=622828
below info is copied from that thread

Be careful who you listen to about gears. Here are two extremes for an example.

Stock Stang
H/C/I Stang

The stock Stang will start to peter out before 5K.
The stock Stang will build power quicker or at a lower rpm

The h/c/i Stang will have a higher range of rpm and will build power a bit later in the rpm band which means a steeper ratio will seem more tame with this kind of combo.

373's or 410's in each example will not act the same

That is one reason you see some say 410's are just great
AND
You see others say 373's are just too much

btw, the above info is stick trans related.

Sorry, but I needed to say one last quick thing.

You know how some peeps talk about 373's making first gear too short.

Mine is great ... then again I'm a h/c/i kinda guy

Grady

Pokageek · Apr 3, 2006

"The h/c/i Stang will have a higher range of rpm and will build power a bit later in the rpm band which means a steeper ratio will seem more tame with this kind of combo."

This sentence is confusing to me. Does it mean H/C/I should go with a higher gear ratio like 4.10 rather than 3.27 for example? That is the same thing you might suggest for stock..Please clarify. What is your definition of "steeper?" For example, 3.27 or 4.10? What do you mean by tame? Is tame good or bad? Thanks.

O' and great calc!

final5-0 · Apr 3, 2006

Two extremes for an example if you will

A stocker will have a lower and shorter rpm band of operation.

Steeper gears like 373's and above will seem more radical
or
since the band is lower & shorter

each gear will peak quicker

This is one reason so many say ... "1st gear is too quick"

Its just the other way around with h/c/i

If your focus is on the strip and not on the street ......

Your band is most likely gonna be moved up a good bit as the focus is more on higher end power and low end power is secondary or for some, not even considered at all.

In this kind of combo, not only is the band moved up but it very well could be expanded a good bit as some of these kinds of combos turn much greater than 6K.

Having said that, can you see how 373's would seem more tame or milder to a combo like that?

Grady

tmoss · Apr 3, 2006

hmmm - you have a heavy vert, your power comes on at ~3,000 rpm and you don't want to do more gear. Your in a tough spot. A smaller cross section intake would give you power below 3,000 rpm, but it won't make power beyond where you are now. You've got too make up your mind about using more gear or taking the power band you have and dropping back to an intake that will give you more low end with little to no loss in power from where you drop out now. I'm also not a big fan of the B cam - but how was it installed? 4 degrees advanced I hope.

Pokageek · Apr 3, 2006

"Having said that, can you see how 373's would seem more tame or milder to a combo like that?"

Ah, yes. Makes sense. Maybe I will go with 4.10's sometime soon. I first am going to have to ge tthe custom grind and better intake and airflow meter first. I am leaving a lot of power on the table as I see it now...probably over a full second on my ETA's. Ack!

final5-0 · Apr 3, 2006

tmoss said:
hmmm - you have a heavy vert, your power comes on at ~3,000 rpm and you don't want to do more gear. Your in a tough spot. A smaller cross section intake would give you power below 3,000 rpm, but it won't make power beyond where you are now. You've got too make up your mind about using more gear or taking the power band you have and dropping back to an intake that will give you more low end with little to no loss in power from where you drop out now. I'm also not a big fan of the B cam - but how was it installed? 4 degrees advanced I hope.

As always Tom ...... you contribute good stuff

Weight of the car does make a big diff

Grady

tmoss · Apr 3, 2006

You can only have so much cake and eat it too..........

Thanks, Grady

Pokageek · Apr 3, 2006

"I'm also not a big fan of the B cam - but how was it installed? 4 degrees advanced I hope."

I don't know honestly.

5.0 power RPM range...

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