5.0, two chamber flows, San Diego PD...?

[Booksix]

I'm kinda new to the SD area (when is comes to cars anyway) and I'm just wondering if anyone running two chamber flows has problems with getting pulled over for being too loud. I just brought my car from WI. It's got a bbk catted H, two chamber flows and dumps after the mufflers (exhaust is a work in progress) but I got pulled over one day by a SUPER cool lady cop (asking all sorts of questions about the car and was into the mods and stuff) and she said she thought I was running straight exhaust (couldn't believe I had cats when I told her...)!! So just wondering, is anyone else having problems with these?

I'm thinking my car may get quieter once I get tailpipes but it's all custom so if it's still too loud, it'll be a lot of work to go back in and replace the mufflers... What do you all think?

 

[MGD]

I don't think I would worry about the exhaust as much as I would getting pulled over for it as an excuse and them finding other stuff

Have you had your car smogged yet? Reason I ask is that it may not pass the visual with that catted H bc if they can tell that is changed and there is no EO number, than no pass.

Just be careful with the mods, ANY engine mod done to a car in CA HAS TO have and EO (Executive Order) number, certifying that it does not increase emissions. If not it will not pass smog (can vouch for that), and you can possibly be cited for it. (can't for that)

Welcome to CA

 

[slayr281]

for legality reasons, i don't believe anybody makes a midpipe that is carb-eo certified legal. i believe jba makes the only legal shorty headers, and all longtubes are illegal.

most, if not all catbacks should be legal, as long as they're within limits, and since they're after the cat, you're not violating any federal or state law that i know of.

i have jba shorties, bassani catted x, and borla xr-1 (chambered) and the car is obscenely loud. since the bassani is a 5 piece, i'm thinking of switching out the cats for straight pipes, or buy some dead cats and gut them out just to pass visual inspections should i get pulled over.

 

[Booksix]

Good info, but frustrating... I like that CA is trying to do their part with pollution, but it's so dumb that you have to pass visual like that (or that strict). If you pass the sniffer you should be fine, that's it.

So as for my shorties, those are illegal, too?

 

[slayr281]

not entirely sure on older models, as i am but only a simple modular guy

i know the laws here vary somewhat greatly from year to year. for instance, i can't legally do turbos on the 98, but Incon had a carb legal kit certified for the 94-95 5.0's, and there's a turbo/muffler replacement that's legal on the 05+ s197's.

interestingly enough, it could be possible that it's smog legal on the legal on the mustang, but not on the t-bird. welcome to california, all logic and everything you know is wrong.

edit- looking at the bbkperformance.com website doesn't list what parts are legal or not, same with the faq. i passed with a completely modified system, most places look to see if you have a cat, and then just wait for the smog #'s to come out. the legality only matters when you get a big ticket and have to go to a referee who will pretty much part your car out piece by piece looking for the carb-eo numbers to specify your part is street legal.

 

[Booksix]

Well, I'll already have to go to a ref from what I understand. I've been told I can get them to allow my car to be smogged as an 88 Mustang and then all parts for that 88 Mustang will be legal on my car. So hopefully I can go that route without a lot of trouble. The other option is to have the ref qualify my 5.0 as a replacement part (as 88 t-bird sports, not turbo coupes though, had a SO 5.0).

The thing that gets me is (and now thinking of a slightly modified version of my situation) what if I knew nothing of my car when I bought it back in 99 and the guy before me already had the 5.0 in it. Then I spend all my money moving to CA and can't afford to put the right motor in OR to replace the exhaust parts I currently have (which should smog clean)? Will they just say, "well sorry, I guess you're screwed!"?

 

[slayr281]

i believe you can legally use any motor on your car's body style year, and newer. i have a 03/01 engine in mine that's fine as it's been fully swapped. in that case, you could likely get by on the replacement motor, as long as the swap was done fully, especially with all smog accessories.

hopefully they don't bother you about the midpipe, i think it's federal law that you can only replace a midpipe when the cat fails, and then you can only replace it with a cat from that exact year.

trust me, it gets real dumb. don't know why.

 

[Booksix]

Yeah, this is madness... thanks for all the info though!

My problem is, if I go the replacement part route for the motor (yes, all smog stuff intact), then all the mustang 5.0 parts I have/wanted to get for my car (with CARB #'s) won't be legal cause my car is a Thunderbird?

And as for the mid-pipe, since it is an out of state car, if I tell them my stock cat's DID fail (I actually never had a stock piece as I pieced the car together; buying lots of new parts) and that's why I replaced it, could they really argue that in any way?

 

[slayr281]

dunno, this isn't my expertise. however, they should be fine. so, for instance, if you wanted to get a vortech model which is legal for the 5.0 mustang, it should likely be legal for the tbird of the same year.

however, you get into trouble when you take a part for another engine, which is why my 4.6 can't run a turbo system which was smog legal for a 94-95 5.0, and can't run the 05+ 3v turbo system either, as i have a 4.6 4v.

maybe you could ask on socalstangs.com's tech forum, i know there are some real techs there, one of them i know is going to classes to upgrade his smog license, and there are a bunch who have mustang performance shops, like DPR in the mission valley area.

i think the trick is to not bring things up if they're not being brought. if the guy looks at your midpipe and sees that you have cats, he should pass that just fine. something like a prochamber might raise questions, and an offroad would definitely fail you on the spot if you've got several performance parts clearly visible under the hood, he might start asking for the exact make/model of the part, and then go research whether it's legal. most centrifugal blowers are fine with exception to race blowers like vortech's xx, ys, jt, and paxton's novi 3k, and i think kb's are also fine, short of a blowzilla. i know kb is applying for their carb-eo as we speak on the 05+, and a friend had a problem with them as they got the carb-eo on the 2.2 for the 03 cobra, but they forgot to get it on the 04, which got him in hot water. kb later resolved through simple paperwork, and he's all cool now.

 

[Booksix]

Thanks Slayr... I just registered for socalstangs today so I"ll ask around over there but you're info helped out a lot too...

 

[MGD]

Bookmark this page:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/amquery.php

Don't trust advertising, this is the final say on what is CA legal or not. I'll check and see about your stuff, I know that my MAC shorties are CARB cert, and they have a plate on them that says so.

Edit: off the top of my head your "ported intake" (because it has been modified) FPR, and headers and H are not legal, unless you can find them on the website. Sorry The rest of the stuff is mostly replacement items (radiator and clutch) and you won't have to worry about them.

I've heard that turndowns won't pass smog because the techs won't get under the car to do the sniffer, but I put mine on after smog so I don't know for sure.

 

[MGD]

Sorry man, it looks like you may be SOL on the headers: you might be better off getting a mustang, or go to the picknpull and pull the stock parts you need.

From the CARB website:

EO: D-245 View PDF
EO Date: 1/30/1992
Manufacturer Name: BBK Performance Specialists
Device: Equal-Length Shorty Header
Device Type: Exhaust System / Exhaust Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1985-1986 Mercury Capri, 1985-1992 Ford Mustangs and 1986-1992 Lincoln Mark VII equipped with a 5.0L engine
-----------------------
EO: D-245-1 View PDF
EO Date: 12/22/1992
Manufacturer Name: BBK Performance Specialists
Device: Equal-Length Shorty Header
Device Type: Exhaust System / Exhaust Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1985-1986 Mercury Capri, 1985-1993 Ford Mustangs and 1986-1993 Lincoln Mark VII equipped with a 5.0L engine
-----------------------
EO: D-245-8 View PDF
EO Date: 9/9/1997
Manufacturer Name: BBK Performance Specialists
Device: Unequal Length Shorty Header System
Device Type: Exhaust System / Exhaust Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1985-1995 Ford Mustang, 1985-1986 Mercury Capri, and 1986-1993 Lincoln Mark VIII vehicles w. 5.0L engine
-----------------------
EO: D-245-5 View PDF
EO Date: 1/31/1996
Manufacturer Name: BBK Performance, Inc.
Device: Equal-Length Shorty Header
Device Type: Exhaust System / Exhaust Modification
Part_Number: Model_Specification: Modification_Allowed: Remarks:
1985-1995 Ford Mustang 5.0L 1985-1986 Mercury Capri 5.0L 1986-1993 Lincoln Mark VII 5.0L
-----------------------

 

[Booksix]

wow, ok, thanks.... still don't get the difference if it doesn't increase emissions, but what can I do... now I just have to figure what how I'm gonna do this with my negative amount of money...

 

[SVT Saleen]

I ran into this problem with my '89 Saleen & the BBK catalytic H-pipe I had installed; e.g. it failed the initial visual inspection but passed the dyno tests.

I had to contact CARB to find out how my Saleen could pass the visual & they directed me to (2) separate EO's that allow 5.0 engined Ford vehicles to replace (4) cats with (2) & still remain CA smog legal. These EO's apply to all Ford vehicles, both truck & passenger car, that originally were offered with the 5.0 engine.

I don't recall the actual EO #'s off the top of my head, but I probably have copies somewhere in my archives. You could also peruse the CARB website to locate them or contact CARB via e-mail.