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  • 1996 - 2004 SN95 Mustang -General/Talk-

5.0 vs 4.6

  • Thread starter Thread starter guitarpnk99
  • Start date Start date Dec 3, 2007
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guitarpnk99

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Nov 24, 2007
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Dec 4, 2007
#21
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #21
'66 coupe said:
Until some import guy points out that technology can close the displacement gap.
Click to expand...

haha x2
 

tiptone

Member
May 1, 2007
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Dec 4, 2007
#22
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #22
'66 coupe said:
Until some import guy points out that technology can close the displacement gap.
Click to expand...

Doesn't even take an import guy for that. A 4.6 makes more power stock than a 5.0, there's your technology at work.
 

04GTMustang

New Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Stafford
Dec 4, 2007
#23
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #23
but then look at it this way. how many 4cylinders run 4s in the 1/4 mile?









Dont worry ill wait

yes technology can somewhat close the gap but then once u really start throwing money at the 4.6 u pull right on back from those 4cylinders. there really is no replacement for displacement. yes some say turbos are the answer for that but ok using that logic if i add a turbo to a bigger displacement car that means im adding even more displacement. Right?lol
 

DropTopPony

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Founding Member
Aug 13, 2002
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south jersey
Dec 4, 2007
#24
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #24
CENTENNIALSTANG said:
Find me a 4.6 motor that can handle more HP and make more HP than a 347 stroker motor with twin 76mm turbos.
Click to expand...

If thats how you wanna compare then do it fairly....you can't compare a stroked and poked 302 (now a 347) to a stock displacement 281...lets compare it to a stroked and poked 281 which would be a 324 topped with some 4V heads and your turbos should easily produce 1000+ rwhp....
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
Founding Member
Jun 8, 2000
3,434
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McLean Hospital
Dec 4, 2007
#25
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #25
BurningRubber said:
5.0 for ease to work on, 4.6 is only a little more complicated with the OHC setup
Click to expand...

Mustang5L5 said:
WHat he said X2
Click to expand...

Stock VS stock, the 4.6L is easy to work on as well, I would have to split that down the middle

I've heard 5.0 guys compare the rebuilds on 5.0's vs 4.6's and they come out the same both having easy and hart points with them
 

Jackie Chan

I didn't read this.
Founding Member
Oct 17, 2002
2,507
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48
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Dec 4, 2007
#26
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #26
if you are going with just bolt ons(exhaust, gears, tuning) the pi 2v is where its at. if you are going with a 300+rwhp NA car, then the 302 based motor is where you need to be.

now, if you are going fi and want less than 500rwhp, the 302 is the one. If you want 500+ for cheaper, the 4.6 is the way to go.

those 2k+ bare blocks for big power you have to buy for the 302s are a big budget eater from the get go.
 

twogts4us

15 Year Member
Apr 1, 2004
4,188
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Dunedin, FL
Dec 4, 2007
#27
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #27
There was a good article in the premier issue of 'Ford Builder' magazine - March 2005 staging this argument, 4.6 vs. 5.0. They broke down each component, block, intake, etc...
I'm not sure you'll find the article online, but I'm sure back issues are available - www.fordbuilder.com
 
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guitarpnk99

New Member
Nov 24, 2007
17
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Moline, IL
Dec 4, 2007
#28
  • Dec 4, 2007
  • #28
Site wont work for me.
 

'66 coupe

Founding Member
Aug 7, 2000
1,202
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Lakeland, Fl.
Dec 5, 2007
#29
  • Dec 5, 2007
  • #29
tiptone said:
Doesn't even take an import guy for that. A 4.6 makes more power stock than a 5.0, there's your technology at work.
Click to expand...

I know you're not talking about '96.
Cause there's technology taking a dump.
 

CobraRed_96_GT

Active Member
May 20, 2006
1,421
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39
UCSD/La Jolla
Dec 5, 2007
#30
  • Dec 5, 2007
  • #30
'66 coupe said:
I know you're not talking about '96.
Cause there's technology taking a dump.
Click to expand...

why? it makes the same stock power as the 5.0L before it on less displacement. Then in 99 you have the same less displacement making a good amount more power, then with the mach 1 and the s-197 you have a lot more power on the same less displacement.

If you took my engine and then had redesigned and it came out as .4L smaller and still made the same power i'd be impressed. Then if you continued to make more and more power on that engine i'd be more impressed (although still a lil' pissed off) - as many 5.0 owners still are.
 

tomustang

Psychotic Member
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Jun 8, 2000
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Dec 5, 2007
#31
  • Dec 5, 2007
  • #31
BMW 5.0=500hp>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 

tiptone

Member
May 1, 2007
37
0
6
Dec 5, 2007
#32
  • Dec 5, 2007
  • #32
'66 coupe said:
I know you're not talking about '96.
Cause there's technology taking a dump.
Click to expand...

As pointed out by CobraRed_96_GT that year's GT still produced the same amount of power as a 5.0 with less displacement. 1996 was also the debut for the DOHC Cobra with 80+ more HP than a stock 5.0 with the same 4.6L engine. I fail to see this dump you say technology took.
 

'66 coupe

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Aug 7, 2000
1,202
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Dec 5, 2007
#33
  • Dec 5, 2007
  • #33
CobraRed_96_GT said:
If you took my engine and then had redesigned and it came out as .4L smaller and still made the same power i'd be impressed. Then if you continued to make more and more power on that engine i'd be more impressed (although still a lil' pissed off) - as many 5.0 owners still are.
Click to expand...


tiptone said:
As pointed out by CobraRed_96_GT that year's GT still produced the same amount of power as a 5.0 with less displacement. 1996 was also the debut for the DOHC Cobra with 80+ more HP than a stock 5.0 with the same 4.6L engine. I fail to see this dump you say technology took.
Click to expand...

You all are talking like it's the 5.0's shortcomings that caused the lower hp numbers. The fact is that a '96 GT making the same power as a '95 GT just shows how it was always Ford's fault for not developing the 5.0 more.
The roller 5.0 was used in Mustangs for years, but with it's dominance over Camaro in the 80's and early 90's there was no need to develop the 5.0 too much. But as soon as the Camaro became a contender, the pressuire was on to at least compete, and most people thought a new engine in the new bodystyle was the answer.

The GT40P cylinder head from the later Explorers is just a glimpse of the possibilities of what Ford could've developed if they had kept the 5.0 in the Mustang. Instead, they switched to mod motors for the same hp numbers.

I realize 4.6es now make same/more power. I'm not mad. They're NEWER so they SHOULD make more power. But that's the sad thing about the non-PI 4.6es. Newer engine, same hp numbers.
 

Jackie Chan

I didn't read this.
Founding Member
Oct 17, 2002
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48
Orlando, FL
Dec 6, 2007
#34
  • Dec 6, 2007
  • #34
i loved my 2v gt, but for an engine with smaller displacement it sure takes up a lot more space than my 5.0
 

CobraRed_96_GT

Active Member
May 20, 2006
1,421
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39
UCSD/La Jolla
Dec 6, 2007
#35
  • Dec 6, 2007
  • #35
'66 coupe said:
You all are talking like it's the 5.0's shortcomings that caused the lower hp numbers. The fact is that a '96 GT making the same power as a '95 GT just shows how it was always Ford's fault for not developing the 5.0 more.
The roller 5.0 was used in Mustangs for years, but with it's dominance over Camaro in the 80's and early 90's there was no need to develop the 5.0 too much. But as soon as the Camaro became a contender, the pressuire was on to at least compete, and most people thought a new engine in the new bodystyle was the answer.

The GT40P cylinder head from the later Explorers is just a glimpse of the possibilities of what Ford could've developed if they had kept the 5.0 in the Mustang. Instead, they switched to mod motors for the same hp numbers.

I realize 4.6es now make same/more power. I'm not mad. They're NEWER so they SHOULD make more power. But that's the sad thing about the non-PI 4.6es. Newer engine, same hp numbers.
Click to expand...

i fail to see an argument here (no offense at all). Your saying they could have gone just as far with the 5.0 using different heads. And i assume you'd mention cam too for an improvement over stock. Well they DID do this, just instead to the OHC engine and by replacing it with PI heads and later tubleport 4V heads as well. And these cars still get 20-22mpg without any lope at idle with complete streetability - with potential left in changing out cams and other things. If you did the same to a 5.0 IMO a lot less people would buy it due to the mileage and less streetability.
 

'66 coupe

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Aug 7, 2000
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Lakeland, Fl.
Dec 6, 2007
#36
  • Dec 6, 2007
  • #36
CobraRed_96_GT said:
i fail to see an argument here (no offense at all). Your saying they could have gone just as far with the 5.0 using different heads. And i assume you'd mention cam too for an improvement over stock. Well they DID do this, just instead to the OHC engine and by replacing it with PI heads and later tubleport 4V heads as well. And these cars still get 20-22mpg without any lope at idle with complete streetability - with potential left in changing out cams and other things. If you did the same to a 5.0 IMO a lot less people would buy it due to the mileage and less streetability.
Click to expand...

So how is it that people were still buying 350ci. Corvettes in 2004? Are Ford engineers just incompetent compared to GM engineers?
 

CobraRed_96_GT

Active Member
May 20, 2006
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UCSD/La Jolla
Dec 6, 2007
#37
  • Dec 6, 2007
  • #37
'66 coupe said:
So how is it that people were still buying 350ci. Corvettes in 2004? Are Ford engineers just incompetent compared to GM engineers?
Click to expand...

If Ford was still making a carb fed OHV 5.0 in 04' i think i'd be disappointed. Also the corvete sees low 20's in mpg from the 6-speed and gearing and is still very much a daily driver. While if you wanted that kind of power out of a 5.0 it'd be rumbly as hell (not that that's a bad thing IMO)
 

'66 coupe

Founding Member
Aug 7, 2000
1,202
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59
Lakeland, Fl.
Dec 6, 2007
#38
  • Dec 6, 2007
  • #38
CobraRed_96_GT said:
If Ford was still making a carb fed OHV 5.0 in 04' i think i'd be disappointed. Also the corvete sees low 20's in mpg from the 6-speed and gearing and is still very much a daily driver. While if you wanted that kind of power out of a 5.0 it'd be rumbly as hell (not that that's a bad thing IMO)
Click to expand...

If GM had the technology to make the 5.7 evolve the way it did, surely the potential was there for Ford to do the same with the 5.0. Even if it they had to change to a 5.8 or some other displacement, it'd at least still have been a windsor pushrod.

The only reason you're convinced it would be "rumblly as hell" is because of what is currently available and known. My point is that it was a missed opportunity, so we'll never really know.
 
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