Thanks Zigmont. Like I said I wasnt really into manual tranmissions but thats what I thought. For a second there I thought there was a ton of bypassing going on. I can remember having to drive a few stick shift cars that jumped in gear
66 coupe electrical issues
- Thread starter red66er
- Start date
Thanks Zigmont. Like I said I wasnt really into manual tranmissions but thats what I thought. For a second there I thought there was a ton of bypassing going on. I can remember having to drive a few stick shift cars that jumped in gear
After thinking about it some more, the easiest way to hook it all up is to leave all of the wires on the original solenoid in place, with the original starter cable attached to the "bat" terminal of the new starter. Then install a small jumper wire from the "bat" terminal of the new starter to the "switch" terminal of the new starter. When you energize the original solenoid it will send 12 volts down to both the new starter and solenoid and crank the engine. This is similar to the way the original Ford starter worked.
Thats what powermaster said from the get go. I didnt understand why all the extra wiring and load on the ignition switch.
What is batt. voltage when trying to crank the car? Have someone try to start the car while you put a volt meter on the + and - terminals of the batt. and check your voltage drop if it drops below 9 volts you most likely have a dead short to ground. I developed a starting problem a couple weeks ago where I lost all turn signals and at about the same time I developed a starting problem. suspecting a bad bad turn signal flasher as the culprit for loss of turn signals as this is the only place all turn signals are tied together. as for the starting problem I had no clue, the batt. was reading 12.5 volts but when I tried to start the car it dropped to 6 volts. well i figured I would fix 1 problem at a time so I went for the turn sinals and replaced the flasher and restored the turn signals (that problem fixed) Guess what believe it or not it also fixed the starting problem. Turns out on a 65 and I believe 66's are the same way that when you turn the key it sends 12volts to one terminal of the the turn signal flasher and with the flasher being bad (acts as a circuit breaker) it had a dead short to ground preventing the car from starting. Just a thought.
Ron
Ron
Hey Zigmont,
This is what I orignally did with the powermaster as that is what they advised to do with the starter is to put a small jumper wire between the two posts and then run a lead to the battery.
I think I now have everything wired up correctly I am just waiting on a new ignition switch and tumbler. Like I said earlier when I took mine out it came out in about 15 pieces and the insides looked pretty bad. What I'm thinking is that every time I turned the key that I was actually shorting everything out from a bad ignition switch.
Any comments on this?
Jeff
This is what I orignally did with the powermaster as that is what they advised to do with the starter is to put a small jumper wire between the two posts and then run a lead to the battery.
I think I now have everything wired up correctly I am just waiting on a new ignition switch and tumbler. Like I said earlier when I took mine out it came out in about 15 pieces and the insides looked pretty bad. What I'm thinking is that every time I turned the key that I was actually shorting everything out from a bad ignition switch.
Any comments on this?
Jeff
Well If it broke from old age, then thats problably your problem. However, if you did the freak nasty to get it out, then only time will tell what happens. I am sure whatever it is, you will figure it out.
Ron,
I never would have guessed that the two had anything to do with each other.
I did replace both of the flashers with new, I'm not sure of the right terminology here, capacitors. The signals seemed to work fine when I had the battery hooked up. So I guess it probably wasn't the problem.
New ignition switch and tumbler are coming tomorrow so I will let everyone know if that is the problem or not.
If it doesn't fix my problem I will need more suggestions and help.
you all have been great with suggestions and help. I can't thank you all enough.
Jeff
I never would have guessed that the two had anything to do with each other.
I did replace both of the flashers with new, I'm not sure of the right terminology here, capacitors. The signals seemed to work fine when I had the battery hooked up. So I guess it probably wasn't the problem.
New ignition switch and tumbler are coming tomorrow so I will let everyone know if that is the problem or not.
If it doesn't fix my problem I will need more suggestions and help.
you all have been great with suggestions and help. I can't thank you all enough.
Jeff
My next thing to do would be to bench test the new starter. I would do this by first removing the starter, then take out the battery. You can bolt the ground cable to the one of the starter housing bolt holes, or clamp it to the starter with Vise Grip pliars. Attach the "pos" cable to the "bat" terminal. Attach the battery cables to the battery. Then run a jumper from the bat to the switch terminal on the starter. When you do this, the starter will energze. Be sure you have it secured, as the torque from the starter will make it jump. If nothing happens there is either something wrong with the starter or one or both of the cables. If the cables are both good, then for sure it is the starter.
If the starter passes the bench test, you should be able to get the same results with the starter on the engine. Make sure the Neg cable is good and is bolted to a clean bare spot on the engine block. Make sure the jumper is not connected from bat to switch when you hook up the cables to the battery. You will then repeat the jumper test and the starter should crank the engine. Let me know if this works.
If the starter passes the bench test, you should be able to get the same results with the starter on the engine. Make sure the Neg cable is good and is bolted to a clean bare spot on the engine block. Make sure the jumper is not connected from bat to switch when you hook up the cables to the battery. You will then repeat the jumper test and the starter should crank the engine. Let me know if this works.
Tim65GT
Active Member
I think what we have been trying to say is that its easier to do it this way..
View attachment 217336
Guys thanks for the diagrams. They are extremely helpful.
Here is an update. Replaced the ignition with a new ignition. Now for the interesting part. Before I did anything else I decided to take out the powermaster XS and take it to get tested. Since it is a one wire hookup with no ground NAPA had a hard time trying to ground and test the unit. After a direct hookup they determined that my brand new expensive powermaster starter was no good.
I tried to put the original starter back in but it doesn't fit due to the new headers that I installed.
Man I'm pissed. I tried to get the powermaster back in thinking I would give it one more chance while using a new starter relay. But I ran out of time and patience and will attempt that tomorrow.
How often does a new starter show up on your door step not in working order?
Powermaster puts a little tag in their box giving detail about the starter after they have tested it. From the point of them boxing it up to my doorstep how does a starter go bad?
Any input here?
Jeff
Here is an update. Replaced the ignition with a new ignition. Now for the interesting part. Before I did anything else I decided to take out the powermaster XS and take it to get tested. Since it is a one wire hookup with no ground NAPA had a hard time trying to ground and test the unit. After a direct hookup they determined that my brand new expensive powermaster starter was no good.
I tried to put the original starter back in but it doesn't fit due to the new headers that I installed.
Man I'm pissed. I tried to get the powermaster back in thinking I would give it one more chance while using a new starter relay. But I ran out of time and patience and will attempt that tomorrow.
How often does a new starter show up on your door step not in working order?
Powermaster puts a little tag in their box giving detail about the starter after they have tested it. From the point of them boxing it up to my doorstep how does a starter go bad?
Any input here?
Jeff
Tim65GT
Active Member
That is an easier way, but there is the potential issue of starter run-on. Here are a couple threads about mini-starter wiring:
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/667850-mini-starter-wiring.html
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/789578-3g-alternator-mini-starter-battery-relocation.html
Tim65GT
Active Member
Hmmm.... Autozone, huh? I don't know if I would trust their skills/knowledge.
One wire alternators are ok for show cars where a clean simple hook-up is desired.
3G alternators do not need much effort to wire correctly. And you don't have to worry about reving it up for the excitation voltage.
Just my $.02
I guess nobody has ever heard of a flyback diode? It should normally be added to any starter/contactor/relays. It helps supress those transient spikes.
Here is the diagram óf an industrial ford 460 engine.
View attachment 217275
I have read a few threads about brand new powermaster starters and alternators failing right out the box. They say tech support is horrible too.
I think the second time around is where you get it going.
65 fastback
Founding Member
Please refer to post #4.
Sorry to be a smart ass, just glad you got it figured out. And no it's not all that uncommon to get a brand new electrcial part that fails.
Tim
Rustylid
New Member
To red66er and others,
I am haveing very similar problem with my '66 as red66er.
I have a freshly rebuilt motor that was properly run-in. I have installed it in the vehicle with manual trans, Ford distributor, stock coil, stock starter/solenoid, and Pertronix Ignitor I pointless ignition. Harness and dash components are stock and have been cleaned and reassembled with new bezel, lenses, etc. The starter will NOT turn with the #16 (red with green stripe on FOMOCO 1966 wiring diagram) ignition wire attached to the "+" terminal of the coil. The stock Alternator Regulator simply clicks. When I remove the coil wire, the starter will turn the motor, but no-spark of course. From this , I know the starter and solenoid are operable.
I can start the engine from the ignition swithch with a hot wire from the battery to the "+" terminal on the coil. This overrides wire #16 from the ignition switch to the coil. I cannot turn off the engine with the ignition switch (only by pulling a wire or choking it). Again, this confirms that the motor runs, starter works, and all other elements of the high voltage inition circuit works.
The problem seems to be isolated to the ignition switch, the Pink resistor ignition wire #16A, an incorrect wiring connection in the dash components, or some other grounding problem or short in the circuit.
Does anyone have any thoughts or solutions on this problem description?
Red66er, please let me know if changing your ignition switch soves your problem.
I am haveing very similar problem with my '66 as red66er.
I have a freshly rebuilt motor that was properly run-in. I have installed it in the vehicle with manual trans, Ford distributor, stock coil, stock starter/solenoid, and Pertronix Ignitor I pointless ignition. Harness and dash components are stock and have been cleaned and reassembled with new bezel, lenses, etc. The starter will NOT turn with the #16 (red with green stripe on FOMOCO 1966 wiring diagram) ignition wire attached to the "+" terminal of the coil. The stock Alternator Regulator simply clicks. When I remove the coil wire, the starter will turn the motor, but no-spark of course. From this , I know the starter and solenoid are operable.
I can start the engine from the ignition swithch with a hot wire from the battery to the "+" terminal on the coil. This overrides wire #16 from the ignition switch to the coil. I cannot turn off the engine with the ignition switch (only by pulling a wire or choking it). Again, this confirms that the motor runs, starter works, and all other elements of the high voltage inition circuit works.
The problem seems to be isolated to the ignition switch, the Pink resistor ignition wire #16A, an incorrect wiring connection in the dash components, or some other grounding problem or short in the circuit.
Does anyone have any thoughts or solutions on this problem description?
Red66er, please let me know if changing your ignition switch soves your problem.
Rustylid
New Member
BTW - I just re-read RSWELD's post about the turn-signal and flasher issues. Will disconnect that circuit tomorrow and retry starting the vehicle using ignition wire 16 to "+" terminal on coil.
Any other thoughts appreciated.
Any other thoughts appreciated.
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