86-92 5.0 H.O swap

welder4956 said:

The MII uses a stock oil pump with a MII-specific pickup tube to fit the oil pan. Be sure to use the MII front timing cover if you swap oil pans.

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I was thinking to use the MII pickup tube -- soaked in gas for a day and blown out with compressed air -- and a new OEM oil pump on the 5.0 block. Safety first, right?

welder4956 said:

The 5.0 has the dipstick going into the oil pan on the driver's side and if you swap pans you'll need to have the dipstick on the front of the engine.

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Yeah, I noticed that. That works, though; I can't fit the serpentine belt system in my II (short of hooking up an electric fan in front of the radiator; what a PITA!), so I'll have to use the II's timing cover and water pump to mount the accessories. I trust they're interchangeable -- I couldn't get the mother-grabbing balancer off the 5.0 so this week I'll build a puller and attack it on Saturday thusly armed.

Will the 5.0 starter fit, or do I need to go with a mini starter? I'm running Hedmans.

EDIT: Never mind; I think I have this figured out. I'm having the flywheel rebalanced; if I'm not changing the flywheel or bellhousing, then I can use the MII starter, yes?

I used the stock starter, there is enough room to get to the bolts.
There shouldn't be that much difference between the headmans and the blackjacks I have.

The firing order's different. The H.O.'s use the 351W firing order: 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 . The passenger car 5.0's (NON-H.O.'s) use the 289-302 firing order, 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

joeythesaint said:

I was thinking to use the MII pickup tube -- soaked in gas for a day and blown out with compressed air -- and a new OEM oil pump on the 5.0 block. Safety first, right?

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Years ago I installed a ... hell, which engine was that?

Anyhow I grabbed a pickup, soaked and cleaned it and blew it out. More than once.

Damned if I didn't miss a tiny piece of the infamous valve seal, or did something to it so it would come loose. Pump sucked it up and I twisted a shaft.

Hell of it is, these things have to be cleaned ....

joeythesaint said:

Dano, do you mean the headers won't fit with the 5.0, or with the AOD?

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Oh no, they'll fit a 5.0 just fine. And with extensive mods they'll fit a 5.8/351W. They just won't cooperate at all with an AOD without severe modification to either the header or possible relocation of the entire trans mount assembly to include the brackets on the chassis itself. The damn AOD is just too freakin wide in the case/oil pan area.

So far, stock II manifolds of 60's style log manifolds are the only way you're gonna get an AOD in there, for either engine...

Okay, more stuff. I put the 5.0 H.O. / 302 hybrid together and mated it to the C4 yesterday. It only took 12 hours and I only broke one finger.

1.) The 302 timing cover won't fit without first removing the locator pins on the front of the block. They're a biznatch to get out and it makes lining up the holes a royal PITA. Turned a 20-minute button-up job into a 90-minute exercise in frustration.

1a.) The 302 timing cover won't accomodate a gear drive timing set. Had to grind the hell out of it to get clearance fore and aft, remove the internal flange, and cut one of the bolt holes in half (it's still oiltight.) Had I a timing chain set, I would've swapped that #$%^&*er in a heartbeat. But I spent good money on the gears and I think they sound cool. So it was worth it.

2.) 5.0 heads are NOT REPEAT NOT ambidextrous. Blockoff plates (unthreaded holes) go on the BACK, else your 302 accessories won't fit.

3.) Blockoff plates are a PITA to fabricate. (EDIT: Buy them. You can also get threaded inserts for $18 each from Ford.)

4.) When getting a II flexplate rebalanced, make sure that the machinist LEAVES ENOUGH GODDAMNED ROOM for those eccentric nuts on the back of the torque converter. Leaving the hole clear is not enough. Give him one of the nuts to work with. Otherwise, you'll be grinding down the flared skirts at the edges of the nuts.

And finally, a reminder: always double-check your attachment points when hoisting the engine, even if just lifting it a couple of inches; I dropped the sonofabitch on my hand and fractured my finger yesterday. Hairline fracture, mashed it good. (In my best Bugs Bunny voice, "Of course you realize, this means war.")

All that aside, the engine is together and ready to go in next weekend.

Sounds about par for the course in many hot rodders history.
Welcome to the club!
Stock up on bandaids.

Yeah, no kidding. I have band-aids on three fingers plus the big gauze pad on the finger I smashed. It still moves; it's what the doctor called a "stable" fracture. Right now it's taped to my middle finger in a Cub Scout salute. Oughta heal up in 2-3 weeks. Hurts like a bastard, though.

Okay. For reasons I still don't understand, the spacer ring between the tranny and block was preventing the engine from turning. Put the engine in, tried to rotate it to TDC by hand, wouldn't turn.

Tried a breaker bar.

Tried jumping the starter: ***BZZZT-WHANK***

Took the engine out.

Took the tranny off. Engine rotated easy.

Put the tranny back on. Didn't turn.

Off. Put the spacer ring on. Turns fine. 1/4" clearance.

Put the tranny on. Ring now interferes with the flexplate weights.

Off.

On.

Off.

You get the idea.

I finally hollowed out the inside of the spacer ring (it's now basically an inverted "U" shape) and fabbed an aluminum skirt to keep road grime from coming in the bottom of the bellhousing. Turns great.

I also had to grind down my oil dipstick to make it flexible enough to pass what feels like a little lip at the oil pan / block juncture.

Got it in and got everything hooked up; I'll be putting the Pertronix in hopefully this week if I get back down there. It's about 50 miles from here, at my wife's parents' house.

I soak everything in the metal bucket of carburetor cleaner (I call it acid-y s***) from napa. It seriously cleans old engine parts nicely. (It cleans carbs, too, heh)

Blue Thunder said:

I soak everything in the metal bucket of carburetor cleaner (I call it acid-y s***) from napa. It seriously cleans old engine parts nicely. (It cleans carbs, too, heh)

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I use gasoline. Old-school.

I don't know if this should go here, or in a separate thread.

The Pertronix Flamethrower Ignition module for the 5.0 (replaces Duraspark) WILL NOT WORK with the MSD BLASTER 2 COIL. The coil will eventually waste the ignition module. There is a specific ignition module for the MSD Blaster 2; you have to get the part # from Pertronix or -- as I learned from Pertronix over the phone this afternoon -- you can either use the stock coil, or install a ballast resistor.

Is this information in the instructions anywhere? NO. Will they send me the right part in exchange for the one that just blew up? NO. I have to shell out for the new module. Assuming, of course, that someone around here has one. Tomorrow starts the parts hunt. :damnit:

I am one Lego-sized piece away from driving this car.

Got it all buttoned up, tuned, detailed the engine bay, changed the oil, drove down to Starbucks and scared the hell out of a guy in a Honda; had a quick drink at the 'rents in law's house, got in it to drive home, and it wouldn't start. I'm so p---ed off that I can't even think straight right now.