98gt versus 89 5.0

millhouse · Jul 23, 2009

Gearbanger 101 said:
Also keep in mind....even in N/A trim, you're still a little further ahead with a PI 4.6L to start. Yes, a head/cam/intake/full bolt on swap will get you into the 300-320hp range on a 5.0L, but you're essentially replacing the entire top end of the engine to do it.

On the other hand, you can make those same numbers with just cams and bolt ons with a PI 4.6L.

In the same token, there are guys making 300rwhp with a cheap gt40 swap with a mild port job and some making 270rwhp without. Yes, most make less…but I’d venture to say most cam/bolt on PI 4.6 setups don’t all achieve the same results either.

Gearbanger 101 said:
So....yes, the bolt on parts for the 5.0L may be cheaper and plentiful in a lot of cases, but you really need more of them to reach the same end result.

To a certain extent…yes. Keep in mind though that a decent set of aluminum heads for a 302 are capable of supporting nearly 1000rwhp (has been done on stock TFS twisted wedge). I don’t know, can the same be said with a stock set of 2v heads…or is upgrading required?

Gearbanger 101 said:
I pretty much see it this way.

-Stock, to about 320hp N/A, the Mod Motors now take the lead in bang for the buck performance
-320+ N/A the OHV takes the lead with their ability to vastly increase displacement
-320-600+ Forced Induction the OHC again seems the leader.
-Beyond that....its anyones ball game really.

I can go with all but the 320-600+ FI realm. A stock 5.0 shortblock has no qualms running in excess of 500rwhp all day long. Yes, you will see some breaking the stock blocks. The amount however is small compared to the modular guys breaking pistons and rods at the same power levels. 500rwhp can be achieved on the stock E7 heads, or one could cheaply upgrade to a gt40 setup and make the same on less boost. The amount of cheap new and used parts is staggering for the 5.0. The same still cannot be said with modular components. That is a blessing and a curse I suppose…as it’s more expensive to upgrade the top end….but seems to retain its value more as well.

Gearbanger 101 said:
Yes, i'll agree blowers are a little more expensive for Mod motors, but again the sustained power increase on blower alone is much, much higher for the Modular compared to the OHV

That’s why you see more and more of the fox guys throwing on crazy cheap turbo kits and making ass loads of power on stock short and long blocks. No need to upgrade to a full tubular front setup…so the costs are still far cheaper.

Gearbanger 101 said:
Example...an basic, non intercooled centrifugal set up on a bone stock 5.0L will net you somewhere in the 290-330hp range.

a basic, non intercooled centrifugal set up on a bone stock PI modular will net you somewhere in the 360-400hp range.

While I DON’T condone them, a cheap Chinese turbo kit ($1500) can get a stock 5.0 longblock into the 400+rwhp range. Again, throw in a stock exploder longblock and you can get 500+rwhp on 12-14lbs of boost.

Don’t forget too that every 100lbs equals ~ 10hp of power. One of the BIG reasons the lx coupes were able to dip into the high 13’s stock with such a limited power level….putting them not as far behind as most think.

90lxcoupe · Jul 23, 2009

millhouse said:
In the same token, there are guys making 300rwhp with a cheap gt40 swap with a mild port job and some making 270rwhp without. Yes, most make less…but I’d venture to say most cam/bolt on PI 4.6 setups don’t all achieve the same results either.

To a certain extent…yes. Keep in mind though that a decent set of aluminum heads for a 302 are capable of supporting nearly 1000rwhp (has been done on stock TFS twisted wedge). I don’t know, can the same be said with a stock set of 2v heads…or is upgrading required?

i'd like to see these GT40 300 rwhp dyno sheets and this 100 hp on a stock TW head

millhouse · Jul 23, 2009

90lxcoupe said:
i'd like to see these GT40 300 rwhp dyno sheets and this 100 hp on a stock TW head

If the turbomustangs search engine wasn’t acting crazy…I could. There were multiple examples of out of the box TW and AFR 185’s pushing 1000rwhp. Here is some threads that shows some of the capability’s…. Fastest mustang with stock AFR 185 heads??? Head flow #'s and forced induction Here is one that was pushing close to 1000 with uported twisted wedge heads on a 306! Fastest blow through setup?

Here is a guy running 9’s and laying down some serious horsepower on some ported e7’s! my stock bottom end & E7's...in the 9's!!

As for the GT40 examples…one just needs to do a search in any of the mustang forums for countless examples. No, they are not the norm…but they are out there none the less. A typical gt40 combo with a good cam is perfectly capable of 260-270rwhp with extremes on both sides.

90lxcoupe · Jul 23, 2009

millhouse said:
If the turbomustangs search engine wasn’t acting crazy…I could. There were multiple examples of out of the box TW and AFR 185’s pushing 1000rwhp. Here is some threads that shows some of the capability’s…. Fastest mustang with stock AFR 185 heads??? Head flow #'s and forced induction Here is one that was pushing close to 1000 with uported twisted wedge heads on a 306! Fastest blow through setup?

Here is a guy running 9’s and laying down some serious horsepower on some ported e7’s! my stock bottom end & E7's...in the 9's!!

As for the GT40 examples…one just needs to do a search in any of the mustang forums for countless examples. No, they are not the norm…but they are out there none the less. A typical gt40 combo with a good cam is perfectly capable of 260-270rwhp with extremes on both sides.

the 1000rwhp with TW or afr's isnt that hard to believe, but 300rwhp, which is what you said in the other post, isnt gonna happen, guys barely to make 300 with afr 165's on a 302

millhouse · Jul 23, 2009

90lxcoupe said:
the 1000rwhp with TW or afr's isnt that hard to believe, but 300rwhp, which is what you said in the other post, isnt gonna happen, guys barely to make 300 with afr 165's on a 302

In the same token there are guys making 330rwhp and 270rwhp respectively with AFR 165's on a 302. Having the proper setup with the proper tune and being on the generous side of tolerances can add up.

FastDriver · Jul 27, 2009

90lxcoupe said:
the 1000rwhp with TW or afr's isnt that hard to believe, but 300rwhp, which is what you said in the other post, isnt gonna happen, guys barely to make 300 with afr 165's on a 302

You're really putting yourself out there saying that it just isn't going to happen. 25thMustang could give you a good idea of their capabilities. I know that they are over 300rwhp with GT40Ps in Factory Stock. I'll bet it's been done with GT40s, too. I'm sure those combos are not out-of-box heads, though.

I wouldn't bet against the possibility of GT40s accomplishing that feat even box stock, though.

With regard to AFR165s, some make only 300ish. I'll bet I made 320rwhp at the end (dynoed 311 without a couple of parts I added later). However, I knew a guy running over 5mph faster than me through the 1/4 with AFR165s/FTI cam/ and a ported Performer intake on a 302. His car was a beast. Point is anyone can do 300 with 165s, but a lot more can be done, too.

Chris

90lxcoupe · Jul 27, 2009

FastDriver said:
You're really putting yourself out there saying that it just isn't going to happen. 25thMustang could give you a good idea of their capabilities. I know that they are over 300rwhp with GT40Ps in Factory Stock. I'll bet it's been done with GT40s, too. I'm sure those combos are not out-of-box heads, though.

I wouldn't bet against the possibility of GT40s accomplishing that feat even box stock, though.

With regard to AFR165s, some make only 300ish. I'll bet I made 320rwhp at the end (dynoed 311 without a couple of parts I added later). However, I knew a guy running over 5mph faster than me through the 1/4 with AFR165s/FTI cam/ and a ported Performer intake on a 302. His car was a beast. Point is anyone can do 300 with 165s, but a lot more can be done, too.

Chris

i wouldnt say im putting myself out there, ive never seen a dyno sheet with over 300 rwhp on a gt40 head, i know the factory stock guys are making the kind of power that was mentioned, but its a whole different ball game when your talking about a race motor. yea they use gt40 heads but they also take a ton of weight out of the rods and crank to make up for it. All im saying is if its so easy to do, then everyone would be making 300rwhp with an alphabet cam and gt40p's

FastDriver · Jul 27, 2009

Sure, as a mild street combo I don't see it happening, either.

98gt versus 89 5.0

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