Advice please from those who have had insurance claims.

[Pakrat]

Well, with a little luck my car will get reviewed by the adjuster tomorrow (but possibly not until Tues.) so I'd like to pick some brains from those who have been thru this already. Any tips or pitfalls to be weary of? I have gathered as much info about the car as possible, from it's current condition and worth to what comprable cars are selling for today, I'm bringing my parts catalogs with me in case there is any question as to availability of an item or what it costs to replace it, a copy of the magazine it was in, all the prior history of the car as stated by the previous owner with shots of trophies, etc.....

My biggest question is what am I entitled to or how demanding can I be? Do I have the right to demand NOS or Ford tooling parts as opposed to just skin panels or lousy fitting reproduction pieces? Obviously the same parts list could come out with majorly different totals when priced out with quality parts vs. crap parts, hell even the same part from a different vendor could be priced pretty differently. I have no intention of signing anything until I am completely satisfied, but I have a bad feeling that what I feel I am owed will not be the same as what I am "legally" owed. I guess so long as they don't total it, that I can make up the difference thru the pain and suffering clause?!?!?! Should I get a lawyer for that? So far on the phone his insurance company seems pretty eager to make things right so I'm remaining optimistic, but words and checks are two different things.

Any advice or self experiences welcome, thanks.

 

[Ronstang]

Usually insurance companies have a standard of the parts used known as "like kind and quality" which means if your car was original and never been hit you should at least be able to wrangle the Ford tooling sheetmetal from them. I wouldn't go for NOS stuff because the price may push your car to the point of being totalled but considering that their insured HIT you the ball is in your court and you can demand about anything you want and see what happens. Don't let them bully you and if you need advice from a pro one of my best friends is an adjuster and I can ask him if he will advise you.

Your case is a perfect example of why it is imperative to get your car appraised these days by a professional and have it documented well. In today's market it wouldn't hurt to have it appraised every year or two as a safety precaution. An insurance company cannot argue value with you when you have documentation of value before the accident.

 

[Max Power]

I would call Hagerty and ask their advice. Since they aren't paying the claim, they will probably be pretty straight with you.

I was invloved in a motorcycle accident where a friend of mone lost a front tire and went down. While swerving to miss him, my front tire clipped the tailsection of his bike. I was amazed when a week laterhis insurance company came after me and claimed, since I was following him and clipped him, it was my fault for the damage to the tail section. I promprtly called my insurance company, and my agent got involved, and that was the last I heard of it.

Insurance companies will bully the little guy on many occasions, but if another insurance company, especially one with a lot of classic car knowledge gets involved, IMO you have a better chance of getting fair treatment.

Also, you have the right to demand american made parts from original tooling.

 

[Jester67]

It is my understanding that you can have there’s car insured to a value like money other valuables. That way if something happened there is no wiggle room left if they don’t wont to fix it they give you the full amount it is insured for. The trick is to insure it for more than it would cost to buy a car of the equal to the one that you had. In most cases they will fix it because it is cheaper that giving you all the money. If it is truly totaled then you can buy a new one. This is a supplement to the normal comprehensive/collision coverage you should have to protect the occupants and the other person if you are to cause of the crash. I have not done this because my car is a project car at this time but when she is finished or I have more money that the “blue book” value then I will most certainly be getting it. This is the only way to truly protect your investment from dumb “well you know”.

 

[Timmy]

I think you’re screwed because the other guys insurance is not going to recognize the “classic” value of your car, they will total it and offer you some insultingly low amount for it.

Insurance companies call it good business, I call it BS. I hope I’m wrong but be prepared to be insulted.

Call Hagerty. Opting to file a claim with them (even though it’s not your fault) just might be the only way to get it fixed (if it’s fixable which I think it is) or to get anything out of the “totaling”. Remember, you have an “agreed” value with Hagerty so they are more likely to “fix” the car then cut you a check IMO.

You can also file a “loss of value” claim. You can do this when the car you have repaired is no longer valued what it should be because it was repaired. Because you have an appraisal on file with Hagerty, you should be able to show the value has been reduced. Not saying you will get anything out of it but it’s worth a shot if things go bad.

Make sure you tell the adjuster, you have an “agreed value policy” on the car and tell him the amount. Make sure he knows you have an appraisal on the car and if you have it handy, make a copy and give it to him.

Good luck man

 

[mdjay]

How much did you have the car insured for?

Make sure to dig up every receipt you have! Also, they will settle with you real fast if you don't have a lawyer. So the demands are more likely to be met, if firm, without the attorney. Also, if you have intentions of a personal injury suit, just do the entire thing through the attorney. If you don't have the intentions of an injury claim. They usually will give you some money for the ouches in the neck and back to settle out of court. If they don't want to meet your requests, threaten them with a lawyer. They don't want one to get involved because the claim will end up costing them way more!

There is nothing stopping you from getting an appraiser out to give a value of what your car is actually worth! It's not your insurance company that has to pay the claim!

 

[Pakrat]

OK, some good info, but some is confusing me more than before.

Ron: That's what I was hoping, thanks.

Max: I did already, they were not much help except to reccomend that I throw anything that shows value their way, like all the stuff I listed above. I don't think I want them invloved unless I have no other choice, my agreed value on the policy I think is maybe lower than the cost to fix, at least it should have been updated over the last 2 years but I didn't, that's my bad, but I figured if an accident was ever my fault, that I'd never get close to this level of damage. I don't have to tell them what I insure my car for do I? Since my insurance isn't paying for it, then that should be irrelivant right?

Jester: I'm not following you at all sorry. The accident wasn't my fault, so my insurance company shouldn't be involved.

Timmy: If they do deem it totalled, I don't have to accept that judgement, do I? I guess I am then in the position to have to sue them and get a lawyer?
Now why would I want to file the claim with my company? Doesn't that let him off the hook then? And then my rates go up? I;m not so sure my agreed value will cover the damage. I'll keep the loss of value part in my head though, that sounds like a good buzz word. In my case, are you sure I should mention my agreed value policy and the amount? Unless the estimate is lower than my agreed value, I don't think I want to even bring them into it.

MDjay: My policy was for only 13,000 agreed value. I should have bumped it up to at least 16,500 a year or so ago, but I didn't. Even though it's worth more than 13k, that's all I have invested into it, so I never raised it to market value. I certainly can not replace it for the amount I have into though, asking price for an equivalant car right now is between 15 and 20k based on the sources I have checked. I still don't see why what I have it insured for is relevant though when technically my insurer should not be involved at all in the matter. Ugh, this is all giving me such a headache already.

So I guess basically the rule of thumb is if I am not 100% satisfied then threaten to sue?

 

[1320stang]

Okay, it's been a long time since my accident ('87) and I didn't have classic car insurance, but I was hit and it wasn't my fault, so it's comparative.

Don't be so quick to sign anything, and I mean anything. If you get Hagerty involved, they should turn around and go after his insurance company to recoup their losses. Regardless of anthing, I think your insurance will go up anyway, just because you were in an accident. I know mine did, its not fair and it wasn't my fault, didn't matter to the insurance company who was at fault, they had to do some work with my policy and someone had to pay for it I guess. It sucked.

They will try and settle with you on your car and injuries ASAP. The car you owned, no problem here, the injuries on the other hand... Hospital, ambulance, docotrs, etc. all want paid, now!! At the time of my accident, I didn't have insurance, you probably do. If you turn it in on your health insurance, your policy there may go up, if your in some sort of group, everyone in your group's insurance may go up, if you don't turn it in and don't pay the bills while waiting on a settlement, your credit may suffer, you may incur late fees and penalties. Problem is, they have all the money and all the power and can wait you out longer than you can wait them out, typically.

Now if you go get a lawyer, an he gets paid based on the settlement, he typically gets 1/3 as his fee. He will want to settle out of court as it means less work for him. The court doesn't take into consideration (typically) the lawyers fees, which sucks because if the schmuck would have been paying attention, you wouldn't need a lawyer. So you may end up getting less or the same amount even getting a lawyer, after his fees. (why can't you get a court appointed attorney?, LOL! I pay my taxes dammit!!)

In the end, the guy not at fault gets screwed by the person that caused the accident, that person's insurance company, their own insurance company, creditors and their own body and mind. I don't know what adequate compensation for this is, I imagine this is why several classic car owners don't drive their rides too much.

 

[Timmy]

Insurance companies do what they want. They have the time, money and the lawyers on staff to screw the little guy and they do on a daily basis. Plus, you would not believe the laws they have on their side until you have a claim.

If his company deems it totaled, yea, you almost have to except it or get a lawyer and try and fight it. The company will assign a value to the car then if the cost of repair is like 75% or more of that value, it’s cheaper in the long run to total it. I know this because that’s how they did my 95 Taurus SHO that got creamed. They totaled it then came back and approved the use of junkyard parts, (yes that’s legal in AR if the car is 5 year old or older) which in turn lowered the repair cost under 75% of the value so they “fixed” the SHO. It was never the same and yes, I’m still pissed off about it.

Filling a claim with your company may or may not make your rates go up. You would have a claim on your record but not an “at fault” claim. I’m thinking it would work much like “under insured” coverage does. Even if it did count towards your driving record, it might be worth it depending on what the other guys insurance is willing to offer. Hagerty would then go after HIS company to recoup the payment to you. Hagerty fights the battle not you.

You know Hagerty will give you 13K if it’s totaled. I don’t think the other company will give you near that. Blue Book only goes back to 1984. NADA does go back to 1969 but it’s under “classic”. Getting the full amount for your loss will far out weight you rates going up.

Call Hagerty and talk to them. They are the only ones that can really tell you how they will handle a claim. Also, if it is totaled, you may want to check into “buying it back” after the settlement.

 

[Pakrat]

1320: Well, I sure hope my case is different. I notified Hagerty as a courtesy, since I'm not claiming with them I did not HAVE to, so if I get penalized for that, well that's just . If I do have to go the Lawyer route, then I better make sure he includes fee's with the damages, otherwise the neck brace is coming out and my willy is going soft to make up the difference.

Timmy: I know for a fact that the guy that hit me has coverage higher than 13k, it's like 25k per vehicle. If they use NADA as a guide as well, then I should be all set I think. I have all the old printouts of the NADA and all my emails with the previous owner when negotiating the buy (that's why they call me pakrat) and the 2,000 NADA average sell price was 10,500, which is exactly what I bought it for (he was asking 13k). Since then I have added in $2500, and the current average sell price for Nada 2004 is $14,600, showing an appreciation of a grand a year basically. I have to believe that if this is their source, then they won't value my car at any less than average retail. I can only hope that when/if they take into consideration the low original miles, trophies and articles, all original metal etc... that maybe it will even add to the value, and show the "loss of value" I'll be taking even when it is fixed to look as it was before the accident. Espeically considering in today's market, cars are selling for higher than their values.

So if I do not divuldge the amount my insurance is, do they have a way to find that info out? The reason I ask is it seems to me that if what you say is true, then if they offer me less than I want or try to total it, that I could hint to them that my policy is for more and that I prefer to claim it on my insurance and let hagerty go after them for the money. That would cost them more if say they "thought" my value was 25k and so on the totaled verdict I get that, then they end up being chased for more in the end and might offer me some extra bucks up front instead, or sweaten the pot?

Regardless of how this works out, if my insurance goes up even a penny do to someone else's error, I will certainly be looking for a new company, victims simply should not be penalized in any matter of life, plain and simple, that is just bogus.

 

[gp001]

Here is what my lawyer friend suggested:
First, request a copy of the guys insurance policy. This will allow you to see his coverage levels. This may prove benficial down the road because if he has good coverage (high dollar, multiple car, multiple policies[ie home], etc) they may be more likely to settle high if you threaten to sue him as well as the insurance company.
Get repair quotes from a few HIGH END repair shops
Have all your HIGH value ads from Hemmings, E-bay, etc ready
Have all your documentation, pictures, trophys, etc ready
Lay it on thick that this is more than just a car (it doesn't directly affect the value, but lets them know you are willing to fight for it- as opposed to just someone with a "driver" car)

Most Important Tip --> GET EVERYTHING AND SEND EVERYTHING IN WRITING. They will most likely change adjusters and/or offices handling the claim so that anything one person said won't mean doody. When they inform you by phone of any changes in who is handling the claim, or what the status of the claim is, make them send it in writing.

These types of things tell them whether or not you are gonna fight or get run over

 

[1320stang]

I think your best bet is not to fix the car, but to buy it back and find another '69 vert to move stuff over on. Maybe George can locate you a good roller and get it into shape for you to move the stuff over on. I wonder about the price of this vs. the price to fix yours.

 

[Jester67]

Sorry for the confusion what I was trying to say is I have had more than my share of crashed when I was young. No matter what you never win. Even when it is the other persons is at fault their insurance company will do what is best for them and if they can find a way to devalue your car they will. So be prepared to take a lose or fight. I hope this is different for your sake but I would not count on it. And for the record my insurance went up after every one of them regardless of fault it’s just the way it works. All I can say is good luck and I am hoping for the best for you. And I agree get anything and everything in writing.

 

[Timmy]

It’s all about establishing the value of you car. If they use NADA, I think you will be ok. Once they play their hand, you will know how to play yours. It should not matter to the other company what YOU have it insured for. You could have liability only (not a smart thing to do) but that why HE carries insurance, to pay for his mistakes.

I guessed the guy had 25K per (that’s standard) but if they try and value your car under 13K and total it, then you may have to try and get the rest out of Hagerty just take the loss.

People that get hit always lose in the end. I have never seen anyone break even when being in an accident that was not their fault. In the end, you always seem to lose.

Man, I’m almost sick just thinking about this. I may never take my 69 out of the garage again.

 

[bnickel]

pak, did you take my advice and go to the doctor yet? if not you really need to. as far as the parts you can use on the car you can also get used original sheetmetal if you want. places like perogie's and mustang ranch etc. can usually supply you with good used sheetmetal

 

[Pakrat]

GP: Thanks, good tips. I think I pretty much have points 3 and 4 covered already, lot's of ammo at the ready if I need it. I plan on being calm and collective until I am forced to flex any muscle, I want to give them every opportunity to make this right on their own.

1320: Oh man, don't say that. I'm not ready to consider that yet. I just refuse to believe that with 80+% of the car still intact, that this is the best alternative. The thought of totally loosing my car just makes me sick to my stomach.

Jester: Ok, I got ya now. Well, I don't even have a parking ticket on my driving record which goes back 20 years now, so if they do penalize me, then they will loose my business to Grundy's or someone else.

Timmy, so are you saying that I could get a claim from his insurance and my own if the money is not enough or they decide to total it? How do you think they will arrive at a value if they do total it? I just can't believe that the cost to fix it would be more than the value, it just seems ridiculous.

bnickel: yes I did, official diagnosis, slight concusion, acute cervical strain, lumbar strain and single contusin to right knee (the one that just had surgery). I have to follow up with my surgeon next week for MRI's to make sure things are OK. Right now I can't take a step without out sounding like I'm cracking my knuckles. How does a "pain and suffering" clause work anyway? Will they offer me something up front for that, or do you have to specifically sue them for it? When I gave the specifics to his agent on the phone they actually brought it up to me, I never mentioned it.

BTW, thanks to those who sent me PM's as well, I appreciate the advice.