AFR 185's on a 306?

tylerrocks · Jan 18, 2007

Well finally got an afterschool job to help feed my adiction. Next couple of projects include Megasquirt fuel injection for my 65' (thanks Bottlefed!!) and new heads to replace my GT-40p's. In another year, I could see myself moving up to a 347. I would like to know what yall thank about going ahead and getting the AFR 185's. I know these are a lil lage for the 306 but are they too big? Other vitals include Edelbrock RMP intake (carb style), F303 cam (226/226--544/544), T-5, and 3.89 rear. As always, any HP guestimates?

Tyler

Shakin66 · Jan 18, 2007

I say go for it if your long term goal is to have a stroker. I am in the same boat myself thinking the 210cc intake runners on the alum. heads I am looking at may be too large but when you have a power adder you kinda need the larger intake tracts.

mtbdoc · Jan 18, 2007

Actually when you are adding boost, you don't need large ports. The forced induction flows plenty as you are above atmospheric pressure [duh!]. Smaller ports will have better velocity, especially when you first open it up and aren't in boost. 185's aren't too much for a 306, but if you are going to that expense, I'd go a bit bigger on the cam. Let that baby rev!!! And these cars are relatively light, so they'll take more cam and still have decent low end power [compared to a heavy, late model car].

Shakin66 · Jan 19, 2007

Well I guess I should have just asked you instead of researching what heads were going to be best for my combo. I did the (DUH) stupid thing by calling my engine builder, AFR, and Trick flow to name a few and asking them. I know boost as all 3 of my personal vehicals are boosted in some form. Jeez......

tylerrocks · Jan 19, 2007

Shakin66 said:
I say go for it if your long term goal is to have a stroker. I am in the same boat myself thinking the 210cc intake runners on the alum. heads I am looking at may be too large but when you have a power adder you kinda need the larger intake tracts.

Yea if I had a blower it would be Vic Jrs. all the way Just weary of those ports on a NA 306.

Actually when you are adding boost, you don't need large ports. The forced induction flows plenty as you are above atmospheric pressure [duh!]. Smaller ports will have better velocity, especially when you first open it up and aren't in boost. 185's aren't too much for a 306, but if you are going to that expense, I'd go a bit bigger on the cam. Let that baby rev!!! And these cars are relatively light, so they'll take more cam and still have decent low end power [compared to a heavy, late model car].

Thats what I'm saying. If AFR's flow 277cfm/185cc and the Vics flow 288cfm/210cc the AFR's gotta have some better velocity. Am I thinking right? It makes sence. (info from AFR site and FordMuscle.com) I guess I kinda answered my original Q? there, AFR's are the better choice. You got me to thinking about my cam. I found one that Lutani makes that caught my eye. I forget the exact specs but it was someting along the lines of 232/242 @.05 and 540/560 lift with a 2800-6500 powerband.

BTW this is an on-again-off-again DD which I may or may not be taking off to school (out of town) next August

mtbdoc · Jan 19, 2007

S-66: Fine...ignore such issues as port velocity. Given the limitation of flow rate the Powerdyn's tend to show, maybe you need less restriction. But for most applications, oversized ports are not needed for many FI apps. With the twin turbo setup I'm currently installing on my LS2-GTO, the stock heads are great for 550-600 rwhp. MUCH bigger ports are needed for a 500 rwhp NA car. AFR often has better port velocity AND will out-perform larger heads in real-world situations [ie at the strip]. Anyway, sorry if you didn't want any input.

Now back to the starter of this thread.

Tyler: a couple of suggestion...first, clearly think through your desired end-point. Give Comp Cams a call and see what their tech folks suggest. But by all means give Ed Curtis a call @ FTI. [ http://flowtechinduction.com/ ] Ed is a serious cam guru, and you will likely pay <$100 more for a custom cam from him. He can give you great advice about an integrated package as well [heads and cam]. He was a Mustang guy for a long time, but is now also in the LSx arena since he bought a GTO.

302 coupe · Jan 19, 2007

good luck getting Ed C. on the phone, lol. Add Camshaft Innovations on your list of cam providers, Jay Allen is a stand up guy. He can set you up with a great set of heads too.

tylerrocks · Jan 19, 2007

Ok guys I'll remember those names when I get ready for a cam. Thanks for all the input

D.Hearne · Jan 19, 2007

If you've still got stock rods and bolts in there, the 185's are going to push the power band into territory that's going to break something for sure. With my Canfields (same as ARF165's) and a Vic jr with a Holley 650 the upper rpm limit was 7500. Stock rods are fine with that, but only with good bolts.

tylerrocks · Jan 19, 2007

already got some ARP rod bolts in there, think I'll be alright?

D.Hearne · Jan 19, 2007

What lifters you using in there? THAT is another factor. If you're running stock O.E Ford lifters, your rev limit is determined by them. Anything over 6000 or so, they bounce off the cam the results are the same as valve float.

iskwezm · Jan 19, 2007

my buddies dad has the 165's on a 10.5:1 289,256* .550 lift cam,Vic Jr/650 cfm and made 446 on the dyno.stock bottom end with Arp bolts.

tylerrocks · Jan 19, 2007

^^^Wow, thats impressive. Is that 256* at .05? Is that streetable?

D. I am using OE hydrolic roller lifters. Are there any other options besides solid lifters?

D.Hearne · Jan 19, 2007

tylerrocks said:
^^^Wow, thats impressive. Is that 256* at .05? Is that streetable?

D. I am using OE hydrolic roller lifters. Are there any other options besides solid lifters?

Yea, Crane sells O.E. type hydraulic rollers that will rev higher. These are what I switched to, p/n 36530-16 Summits sells em for about $170 a set. I've rev'd em to 7500 in a 306, B cam w/1.7 rockers. My Kid was home over the X-mas holiday and I learned that he was reving my 331 to 7 grand. Same set of lifters in it, but with a Z303 cam.

tylerrocks · Jan 19, 2007

Isn't that what sons are good for, playing with your toys? Anyways thanks for the info and suggestion.

D.Hearne · Jan 19, 2007

Yea, and he managed to suck in the intake gaskets when downshifting in too low a gear with too many rpms. But just as well I guess, I tore into the 331 last weekend to also find that the timing gear on the cam was wearing into the cam retainer plate. This has been the second time for this. I've finally realized I have the Ford Racing timing set that requires a steel cam retainer plate. I bought this set a few years back when just getting back into this stuff. The parts guy at the dealer I bought it from never told me I needed the steel plate to go with the gear.

10secgoal · Jan 20, 2007

You basically described my old combo. 9.2-1 308 with 185's. Not too big at all. Ran the X cam and switched to the F cam right before turbo. Ran the same time, didn't lose anything anywhere. Had enough umph down low to pull the wheels with an auto. And I only shifted at 6400.

tylerrocks · Jan 20, 2007

That sucks D, just part of the game tho i guess.

10sec, have any Times/MPH with your old combo?

10secgoal · Jan 20, 2007

Best in the 1/8 was 7.67@89.15 and the 1/4 was 12.14@109.9.
With a little squezze it went 7.14@94.55. Never made a 1/4 pass with the bottle.Car drove and cruised fine. Perfectly reliable.I'm cheap, too. Stock used lifters out of a junk motor, stock retainers and spider plate with a stud girdle.
Depending on how crazy you may or may not get with the cam, I needed a 750. I tried a 650 and lost MPH and a little down low also.

iskwezm · Jan 20, 2007

tylerrocks said:
^^^Wow, thats impressive. Is that 256* at .05? Is that streetable?

D. I am using OE hydrolic roller lifters. Are there any other options besides solid lifters?

it was very streetable, idles at about 900, and made for a vey nice little 289.

AFR 185's on a 306?

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