AFR 185s

[Therian]

Looking for some opinions

I think I want to go with these heads for several reasons:

1. They are the biggest heads I can find that are emissions legal
2. They should support a decent amount of power, and yet shouldn't be too big for my current engine
3. They seem to satisfy my goals for long term performance

Now I have a couple questions (and here's where the opinions come in)

1. Is there another head that is e-legal and bigger (or will support more power)
2. I have heard of piston to valve clearance issues. I have also heard that you either need to notch your pistons or go aftermarket. Is there a lightweight, forged aftermarket piston that will not require any boring (I don't want to go .30 over) or balancing (I know I'm asking too much..ha)
3. What is the absoulte best valve job I can get on this head (I want it to be comfortable revving).

Thanks guys

 

[Grn92LX]

205cc TW heads are bigger and have emission ports.

How do you know that your engine doesn't need an overbore? It ain't that simple.

 

[Therian]

I didn't say it didn't need one. I said I didn't want to. cause I wanted to rev the block a bit (not too much) and I didn't want to sacrifice any of its integrity. though I'm sure .30 over wouldn't make that much difference

 

[Green 94 5.0]

Looking for some opinions

I think I want to go with these heads for several reasons:

1. They are the biggest heads I can find that are emissions legal
2. They should support a decent amount of power, and yet shouldn't be too big for my current engine
3. They seem to satisfy my goals for long term performance

Now I have a couple questions (and here's where the opinions come in)

1. Is there another head that is e-legal and bigger (or will support more power)
2. I have heard of piston to valve clearance issues. I have also heard that you either need to notch your pistons or go aftermarket. Is there a lightweight, forged aftermarket piston that will not require any boring (I don't want to go .30 over) or balancing (I know I'm asking too much..ha)
3. What is the absoulte best valve job I can get on this head (I want it to be comfortable revving).

Thanks guys

what exactly are your long term plans. afr 185's seem a bit big for a stock compression 302 unless you are going with a power adder.

 

[Killercanary]

SRP makes a standard bore forged piston. We run them in my dad's '91GT. He had bought a new stock block from summitt when they had them and didn't want to bore it, the SPR's were one of the very few standard bore pistons we could find. It ABSOLUTELY will need to be balanced though as they were a lot lighter than the stockers and they really threw the balance of the assembly off.

As for a valvetrain that can be rev'd, http://www.flowtechinduction.com offers some really nice spring upgrade packages that can accomodate your needs.

 

[fiveoho]

I have a brand new set of AFR 185s sitting in the floor for my soon-to-be combo and now im getting told that these heads WILL not work with a na 306setup. i have researched this to death before i bought these and i knew they were a little big for that setup, but not terrible big. there were several guys on here that said they were a little big but not bad. the main reason im concerned is because the guy that told me this has 30 years experience building ford based engines. i dont know how much, if any, experience he has with AFR stuff either.

i guess this sorta goes along with what Therians original post was: will 185s not work with a na 306?

 

[Killercanary]

fiveoho- they will absolutely work, the only reason I could see them being an issue is if you have some .030" over pistons that have the stock sized valve reliefs in them, otherwise bolt them on and go!

 

[fiveoho]

fiveoho- they will absolutely work, the only reason I could see them being an issue is if you have some .030" over pistons that have the stock sized valve reliefs in them, otherwise bolt them on and go!

PHEW!!!


ive read alot of your posts and from what i can tell, you seem to know your stuff. im a little concerned about my pistons...i dont have any yet. overlook my ignorance here: is there any pistons i can buy with enough relief already in them so i wont have to do any additional grinding? if so, please let me know

so my car shouldnt be a dog with the 185s ?

 

[Green 94 5.0]

with the proper valve reliefs the afr 185's will certainly work. what i was saying with my post was that a smaller head such as the afr 165 is much better suited for a stock compression n/a 302. you will not see the full potential of the 185's with that setup. if you do want to use the 185's i woiuld recommend a higher compression piston with the 58cc 185's. the added compression from the pistons and the smaller chamber 185's should compensate for the lower displacement somewhat. as far as an off the shelf piston goes, im certain you will be able to find one. i have the probe srs pistons in mine. they have plenty of piston choices and may be worth making a call to. keep us updated on how it goes.

 

[fiveoho]

with the proper valve reliefs the afr 185's will certainly work. what i was saying with my post was that a smaller head such as the afr 165 is much better suited for a stock compression n/a 302. you will not see the full potential of the 185's with that setup. if you do want to use the 185's i woiuld recommend a higher compression piston with the 58cc 185's. the added compression from the pistons and the smaller chamber 185's should compensate for the lower displacement somewhat. as far as an off the shelf piston goes, im certain you will be able to find one. i have the probe srs pistons in mine. they have plenty of piston choices and may be worth making a call to. keep us updated on how it goes.

preciate it man. i will

i think i will check with SRS also

 

[Methodical]

Looking for some opinions

I think I want to go with these heads for several reasons:

1. They are the biggest heads I can find that are emissions legal
2. They should support a decent amount of power, and yet shouldn't be too big for my current engine
3. They seem to satisfy my goals for long term performance

Now I have a couple questions (and here's where the opinions come in)

1. Is there another head that is e-legal and bigger (or will support more power)
2. I have heard of piston to valve clearance issues. I have also heard that you either need to notch your pistons or go aftermarket. Is there a lightweight, forged aftermarket piston that will not require any boring (I don't want to go .30 over) or balancing (I know I'm asking too much..ha)
3. What is the absoulte best valve job I can get on this head (I want it to be comfortable revving).

Thanks guys

Well, I can tell you this for a fact. I sent an email to FTI with my planned combo, which is in my sig, and he adamantly stated that I should not use the 185s unless there was forced induction. He said something about the velocity would not work well on a NA 306 - 347 yeah but not 306 - something about low end torque (can't remember it all right now). He said the 165s were best suited for my NA 306 because of the velocity. I think I can pull up his responses to my emails. Now, maybe he's done more work and changed his mind but that is what I was told by FTI.

As far as valves, I'd suggest you just tell AFR what you want and they will build to suit. No need to buy heads and then ship to someone to do other work. Let only one person touch those heads that way if something goes wrong you won't get the finger pointing game. Again, just let AFR do the work for - hell they are the ones who make them. That is what I did - told them what I wanted and they built to suit. Again, no need to have others do the work. And, the prices are comparable.

Hell, check out what heads KillerCanary's using and look at the 1/4 mile time.

 

[Killercanary]

I agree on selecting the 165's over the 185's on a 302, but on a 306 where I could get away with the 185's it'd be a harder choice but it would completely depend on what my intent was for THAT combo. If was going to be mild combo like the one I run now, I'd stick with a 165. If I was going to run something wilder I may go with the 185, it all depends on the combo.

Ed sells the heads with the upgrades already installed, so there is no need to send the heads to him to have stuff replaced. As was also mentioned, you can call up AFR and they can help as well. I've delt with Jason there and he is a top notch guy that can help you with your head selection choices. He's very knowledgable and a cool guy to talk to, he too has helped me a lot with my combos.

with the proper valve reliefs the afr 185's will certainly work. what i was saying with my post was that a smaller head such as the afr 165 is much better suited for a stock compression n/a 302. you will not see the full potential of the 185's with that setup

This is correct!


fiveoho- Will you car be a dog with the 185's... not if you set the rest of the combo up right to take advantage of the head. It may involve more compression, more gearing, etc but if setup right it'll be a beast.

Most aftermarket pistons are cut to accept a 2.02" valve, but its best to never assume that they will just work because they are aftermarket. Call around and ask the piston manufcaturers what diameter valve the piston is cut to accept.

Hell, check out what heads KillerCanary's using and look at the 1/4 mile time

I run the AFR 165's on the setup in my sig. My new setup will be topped off with 185's.

 

[fiveoho]

Well, I can tell you this for a fact. I sent an email to FTI with my planned combo, which is in my sig, and he adamantly stated that I should not use the 185s unless there was forced induction. He said something about the velocity would not work well on a NA 306 - 347 yeah but not 306 - something about low end torque (can't remember it all right now). He said the 165s were best suited for my NA 306 because of the velocity. I think I can pull up his responses to my emails. Now, maybe he's done more work and changed his mind but that is what I was told by FTI.

As far as valves, I'd suggest you just tell AFR what you want and they will build to suit. No need to buy heads and then ship to someone to do other work. Let only one person touch those heads that way if something goes wrong you won't get the finger pointing game. Again, just let AFR do the work for - hell they are the ones who make them. That is what I did - told them what I wanted and they built to suit. Again, no need to have others do the work. And, the prices are comparable.

Hell, check out what heads KillerCanary's using and look at the 1/4 mile time.

i would be interested in the email response FTI gave you if its not too much trouble to get.

as far as the valves go; when i ordered my heads i had AFR do the spring and valve upgrade. so im already on top of that. they built the heads, they done the upgrades.

 

[fiveoho]

I agree on selecting the 165's over the 185's on a 302, but on a 306 where I could get away with the 185's it'd be a harder choice but it would completely depend on what my intent was for THAT combo. If was going to be mild combo like the one I run now, I'd stick with a 165. If I was going to run something wilder I may go with the 185, it all depends on the combo.

Ed sells the heads with the upgrades already installed, so there is no need to send the heads to him to have stuff replaced. As was also mentioned, you can call up AFR and they can help as well. I've delt with Jason there and he is a top notch guy that can help you with your head selection choices. He's very knowledgable and a cool guy to talk to, he too has helped me a lot with my combos.



This is correct!


fiveoho- Will you car be a dog with the 185's... not if you set the rest of the combo up right to take advantage of the head. It may involve more compression, more gearing, etc but if setup right it'll be a beast.

Most aftermarket pistons are cut to accept a 2.02" valve, but its best to never assume that they will just work because they are aftermarket. Call around and ask the piston manufcaturers what diameter valve the piston is cut to accept.


I run the AFR 165's on the setup in my sig. My new setup will be topped off with 185's.

i think i may give jason a ring at AFR. as for -making my combo work with those heads-........i know my intakes a little smallish. as far as the cam, i have 'bigger' heads so i picked a 'bigger' cam

( TFS 2 : i know i know....shelf cam ) .

im also going with a 3.90 gear to compensate for the expected softness on the bottem end.

Do i just need to do a 331 instead of a 306? for financial purposes, i want to still do a 306.

 

[mootang]

if you haven't built your engine yet then i would certainly go with a 347. it shouldn't be that much more expensive than a 306 and it will be well worth it! especially with those heads. and if you can get a custom cam from FTI! if you run this setup with a decent compression ratio you can make some really awsome #'s.

check out this link......
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/02/YellowFever/index.php

 

[Methodical]

i would be interested in the email response FTI gave you if its not too much trouble to get.

as far as the valves go; when i ordered my heads i had AFR do the spring and valve upgrade. so im already on top of that. they built the heads, they done the upgrades.

I will search for them. They are archived.

 

[fiveoho]

if you haven't built your engine yet then i would certainly go with a 347. it shouldn't be that much more expensive than a 306 and it will be well worth it! especially with those heads. and if you can get a custom cam from FTI! if you run this setup with a decent compression ratio you can make some really awsome #'s.

check out this link......
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/02/YellowFever/index.php

its not that i dont want to do a 331 / 347. just the $$ . i put a pencil and paper to it once. to build a 306 and build a 331, its about $800 difference- give or take.

wonder if i could come out any better with maybe just buying a shortblock from DSS or somewhere?

 

[fiveoho]

I will search for them. They are archived.

thanks man

 

[mootang]

well if your not in a huge hurry it would definatly be worth the wait to save a few extra dollars and go that route!

 

[Methodical]

thanks man

Searching........