afr

ms93gt · Jan 2, 2005

Also the 165's would be better than the 185's for street right?

Grn92LX · Jan 2, 2005

ms93gt said:
Also the 165's would be better than the 185's for street right?

With your stock shortblock 302 fitting 185's is gonna be tough. The 165's are more than enough for your goals of low 12's. If you had a 306 with a good piston (with deeper reliefs) I would have swayed you to the 185's. Your combo sounds fine and is perfectly capable of hitting low 12's. For your choices of the TFS 1 cam and the Bcam, definatly the TFS 1. If you wanted more you could do a custom cam, bigger intake blah blah. I had the trickflow 1 cam and it was a decent street cam with my combo. Honestly, I wish I still had it, would have saved a ton of money (long story that im not typing) When you order the heads remember to use the 58cc stud mounted ones! Also, when you buy them buy from ed curtis or adperformance.com They stock them on the shelf otherwise you'll be waiting a while for them.

ms93gt · Jan 2, 2005

What size mass air meter should I go? And is accufab a good throttle body?

willys1 · Jan 2, 2005

5spd GT said:
I contacted Ed Curtis and he gave me a custom cam with my AFR 165's and suggested the Performer intake...so I took his advice and did just that...

I have more torque than stock and the whole combo works very nice on my daily driver...this is my only car and Ed knew that when I told him and he suggested the h/c/i I have...and I wouldn't have went any other way...

I drive my car to work/school/gym/church/etc...you name it...I go there in it...drove in the snow and all...though I had to get pulled out twice from the ditch

You say you have a custom cam from Ed Curtis,,your sig says an FT1,,,which one is it??

5spd GT · Jan 2, 2005

willys1 said:
You say you have a custom cam from Ed Curtis,,your sig says an FT1,,,which one is it??

Lol...Ed Curtis works at Flowtech Induction...hence: FTI

It doesn't say FT1...it says FTI...

5.0 HOtrain · Jan 2, 2005

willys1 said:
You say you have a custom cam from Ed Curtis,,your sig says an FT1,,,which one is it??

Ed Curtis/FTI=same thing Flowtech Induction is Ed's company.
mike.

5spd GT · Jan 2, 2005

ms93gt said:
What size mass air meter should I go? And is accufab a good throttle body?

75 or 80mm MAF...and yes Accufab is a very good throttle body company...very nice pieces...

I would get no bigger than a 70mm TB...AFR 165's...Performer or equivalent intake...custom cam from Ed or Buddy Rawls for example...new timing chain...and get some 1.6 RR's for the cam grinder to give you a little more "in the cam"...(more selection)...I have Scorpion 1.6 RR's and they are solid and look good ...Ed gave me the headgaskets/valve cover gaskets/roller rockers/Rollmaster Billet Timing Chain/ etc...he can get you whatever you need...

Your injectors are fine...I went with 30lb injectors though again from the suggestion from Ed because he told me the tuners he talks with have more to play with when tuning on the dyno/computer...

Good Luck

willys1 · Jan 2, 2005

5.0 HOtrain said:
Ed Curtis/FTI=same thing Flowtech Induction is Ed's company.
mike.

Thanks!! No punn intended 5spd,,I didnt know that

Grn92LX · Jan 2, 2005

ms93gt said:
What size mass air meter should I go? And is accufab a good throttle body?

80mm Pro M and yes accufab is the best of the best when it comes to TB's. Like we spoke about, 75mm is what you need. For the cam choice thats all up to you if you wanna swing for the custom. ed curtis, jay allen or buddy rawls are all good at what they do. Just tell them everything about the combo and to get you as much power with in your rpm range as they can. Tell them emissions is also a concern. But honestly, the combo I set you up with will go low 12's with some et streets if your hooking/driving right. I might step it up to a 410 if I were you. Im actually considering them for my car since my rear needs work anyway.

Mike

5spd GT · Jan 2, 2005

Grn92LX said:
I might step it up to a 410 if I were you. Im actually considering them for my car since my rear needs work anyway.

Mike

Yeah and if I had a daily driver like you I would to ...but I like my daily driven friendly gears (373's)

Highbredcloud · Jan 2, 2005

Sound like a project that I'm doing right now...when it comes to cams...a custom cam is your best bet...I have went with Ed Curtis before and will go with him again for this current setup...He can make you a nice emission cam for you that is better than most OTS cams out there...and especially one that will work with your requirements...I have spoken to AFR before in regards to waht cam they recommend...their reply was that the heads were designed to work with a samll cam...They actually recomended an E cam...BY no means go custom if you can since it is simply $150 more for a way better cam...but their point is you don't need a huge cam to make power with those heads...the 165's should get you low 12's without a problem...I would not go with the TFS stage one cam...It is a good cam but not for those heads...that cam favors the exhaust more...in wich most cases that is exactly what you need, however, with heads that have been ported on intake and exhaust you don't need a cam that favors the exhaust...Actually you would be better off with the same duration or slightly more on the intake side with the AFR's...24 or 30# injecrors will work with your combo...I would get a PRO-M 77mm if money is not the issues or a PRO-M 80mm...less money since it is plastic but flows a bit more than the 77mm...the 75mm bullet is not that good from what I have heard...There is no need for a 75mm TB...65mm or 70mm will work fine...As far as gears go...If you don't have them...you need them. The only difference between 4.10 and 3.73 is about 300RPM's...but you will have harder time hooking with 4.10 over the 3.73 so suspension is a must...also you may loose some ET with the bigger gear if you go with an OTS shelf cam...Intakes...The Performers seems to be working well with the AFR 165's right out of the box...but there are other intakes that will work well with a little work to the runners...Hope this helps...

5spd GT · Jan 2, 2005

Highbredcloud said:
Sound like a project that I'm doing right now...when it comes to cams...a custom cam is your best bet...I have went with Ed Curtis before and will go with him again for this current setup...He can make you a nice emission cam for you that is better than most OTS cams out there...and especially one that will work with your requirements...I have spoken to AFR before in regards to waht cam they recommend...their reply was that the heads were designed to work with a samll cam...They actually recomended an E cam...BY no means go custom if you can since it is simply $150 more for a way better cam...but their point is you don't need a huge cam to make power with those heads...the 165's should get you low 12's without a problem...I would not go with the TFS stage one cam...It is a good cam but not for those heads...that cam favors the exhaust more...in wich most cases that is exactly what you need, however, with heads that have been ported on intake and exhaust you don't need a cam that favors the exhaust...Actually you would be better off with the same duration or slightly more on the intake side with the AFR's...24 or 30# injecrors will work with your combo...I would get a PRO-M 77mm if money is not the issues or a PRO-M 80mm...less money since it is plastic but flows a bit more than the 77mm...the 75mm bullet is not that good from what I have heard...There is no need for a 75mm TB...65mm or 70mm will work fine...As far as gears go...If you don't have them...you need them. The only difference between 4.10 and 3.73 is about 300RPM's...but you will have harder time hooking with 4.10 over the 3.73 so suspension is a must...also you may loose some ET with the bigger gear if you go with an OTS shelf cam...Intakes...The Performers seems to be working well with the AFR 165's right out of the box...but there are other intakes that will work well with a little work to the runners...Hope this helps...

Good Stuff...

I have a Pro-M Bullet ...and so does Killercanary...but if money isn't an option I would get the 77 or 80mm as stated...

Highbredcloud · Jan 2, 2005

5spd GT said:
Good Stuff...

I have a Pro-M Bullet ...and so does Killercanary...but if money isn't an option I would get the 77 or 80mm as stated...

Did you have any problems with it...? From what I have heard from numuros people including Ed C...is that they are not as precise as their other meters...SOME actually have to be on a slight angle when installed to run correctly others have to be rotated even more sometimes to a point where the electronic clip is at the bottom of the meter...it's weird...I guess it's hit or miss with them...

5spd GT · Jan 2, 2005

Highbredcloud said:
Did you have any problems with it...? From what I have heard from numuros people including Ed C...is that they are not as precise as their other meters...SOME actually have to be on a slight angle when installed to run correctly others have to be rotated even more sometimes to a point where the electronic clip is at the bottom of the meter...it's weird...I guess it's hit or miss with them...

I haven't had any problems with mine...it has been on and off quite a few times...so probably various unknown angles...but I think you summed it up with the "hit or miss" clause...it just isn't as much "hit or miss" as the C&L's...luckily...

It was a money issue on that...it was one of the latter things I bought and I was kind of in a bind after buying all the little bolts/gaskets/etc...but atleast it is chrome...

It very well might not be as precise...very possible...

DMAN302 · Jan 2, 2005

Pro-m bullet likes the stock air box for more direct air flow...the CAI set up screws the maf with the way the air kicks off the bend..so I've been told. I run stock box with the 75 bullet in plastic and have NO problems at all.

5.0 HOtrain · Jan 3, 2005

5spd GT said:
Yeah and if I had a daily driver like you I would to ...but I like my daily driven friendly gears (373's)

As highbred cloud stated, difference between 3:73's and 4.10's is about 200-300rpms fwiw.
mike.

Grn92LX · Jan 3, 2005

Highbredcloud said:
Sound like a project that I'm doing right now...when it comes to cams...a custom cam is your best bet...I have went with Ed Curtis before and will go with him again for this current setup...He can make you a nice emission cam for you that is better than most OTS cams out there...and especially one that will work with your requirements...I have spoken to AFR before in regards to waht cam they recommend...their reply was that the heads were designed to work with a samll cam...They actually recomended an E cam...BY no means go custom if you can since it is simply $150 more for a way better cam...but their point is you don't need a huge cam to make power with those heads...the 165's should get you low 12's without a problem...I would not go with the TFS stage one cam...It is a good cam but not for those heads...that cam favors the exhaust more...in wich most cases that is exactly what you need, however, with heads that have been ported on intake and exhaust you don't need a cam that favors the exhaust...Actually you would be better off with the same duration or slightly more on the intake side with the AFR's...24 or 30# injecrors will work with your combo...I would get a PRO-M 77mm if money is not the issues or a PRO-M 80mm...less money since it is plastic but flows a bit more than the 77mm...the 75mm bullet is not that good from what I have heard...There is no need for a 75mm TB...65mm or 70mm will work fine...As far as gears go...If you don't have them...you need them. The only difference between 4.10 and 3.73 is about 300RPM's...but you will have harder time hooking with 4.10 over the 3.73 so suspension is a must...also you may loose some ET with the bigger gear if you go with an OTS shelf cam...Intakes...The Performers seems to be working well with the AFR 165's right out of the box...but there are other intakes that will work well with a little work to the runners...Hope this helps...

Not to start a war with ya, but to say the TFS 1 cam "isn't good for these heads" is wrong. Its obviously not ideal but will work fine for his street car. Did you even see the example I posted of the guy from corral's car? Is 12.0 @ 112 with a ported cobra lower not good at 3400lbs?? But, not to say a custom wont be better but thats his call if he wants to do it. I did that exact swap and it wasn't cost effective for me but my car isnt dialed in yet. Gotta hook up the PMS when I have time. With the TB, stop telling him to use a 65mm. Theres a NICE thread going on now on corral with lots of facts vs myths on TB's. I HIGHLY suggest the nay sayers check that out. Not saying he'll make a ton more with a 75mm over a 70mm but for the same price and a slight edge with no side effects and it'll take him farther down the road why not? Honestly I was gonna put a 75mm race TB which is a 90mm opening on my car. I didn't because the race tb's don't have the port to hook up the line from the oil fill. I also didnt wanna make a new intake pipe. I should have bought that TB though. I have no issues what-so-ever with my 75mm accufab. Many guys have showed gains with bigger TB swaps on h/c/i cars and many smart guys recommend bigger ones like our very own ed c, jay allen. Ed C recommended the 75mm for me as im sure he'll recommend one for you when you do your new afr 165 combo

Rick 91GT · Jan 3, 2005

I agree on the TB issues, I proved this a few years back. I swapped a 65mm Accufab for a 75mm Accufab at the track and say gains in back to back runs, like 2mph and a few tenths, identical 60ft, and conditions.

The loss of low end and air speed is a joke, and myth in all cases I have delt with. Why spend the money twice? Same goes for the MAF, get a 80mm shorty from the beginning and never buy another, even on a mild combo the 80mm will work very good.

I had a 75mm bullet with a 24# injector a few years bcak and had the rich and lean issues at idle and high rpm, a swap to a 76mm C&L took care of all my issues. I did find that both meters ran better with the stock airbox and regular paper filter (lost power with a K&N...lol). Then I swapped to a 80mm Pro-M and 4" Powerpipe and never looked back. The car was smoother, pulled harder and ran better ET's.

Mike, we saw a 5hp/tq gain on the dyno when comparing a Accufab 75mm RACE TB to a regular 75mm. Talked with AFM and they were shocked (they reccomended the RACE series when using there 4" PP) and said they have not seen that before. Only thing we could come up with was it may create some turbulance, but on consecutive pulls the results were the same.

willys1 · Jan 3, 2005

Highbredcloud said:
Did you have any problems with it...? From what I have heard from numuros people including Ed C...is that they are not as precise as their other meters...SOME actually have to be on a slight angle when installed to run correctly others have to be rotated even more sometimes to a point where the electronic clip is at the bottom of the meter...it's weird...I guess it's hit or miss with them...

Thats what happened to mine,I had to twist it 180 degree's,because it ran like sh@t in the up rite position.Someone told me too do that(Mike Keirstead) and it worked great!! I just bought a new one because I thought something was wrong with this one

ms93gt · Jan 3, 2005

As far as valve springs and pushrods, do the AFR's come with springs? And what kind of push rods should I get? Also is granatelli a good mass air?

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