Digital Tuning Going heads/cam/intake. Do I need a tune?

[karhoot]

Back again with more foxbody upgrades. Current list of what's coming in:

Holley Systemax II
B-21
AFR 185cc
24lb injectors
MAF conversion w/ 75mm TB/MAF sensor (fender well intake)
Car is a 5-speed w/ 3.73 gears installed already

From my research, I could get away with running this with no tune but this seems a bit much for no tune? I'm not sure of any tuners in my area. What are you guys thoughts?

 

[gkomo]

I ran a 331 with the TrickFlow twisted wedge 170cc heads, stage 1 cam and street burner intake, lots of supporting mods, 24lb injectors with a calibrated MAF for years and that car riiipped. Super fun. Never had it dynoed or took it to the track but I guesstimated it to be a low fo mid 12 second car. Long story short I never had it tuned or ran any chip, etc. sure I probably left both some power and drivability on the table but you shouldn’t ‘need’ a tune.

Your results may vary, your setup seems like one step bigger than what mine was.

 

[karhoot]

I ran a 331 with the TrickFlow twisted wedge 170cc heads, stage 1 cam and street burner intake, lots of supporting mods, 24lb injectors with a calibrated MAF for years and that car riiipped. Super fun. Never had it dynoed or took it to the track but I guesstimated it to be a low fo mid 12 second car. Long story short I never had it tuned or ran any chip, etc. sure I probably left both some power and drivability on the table but you shouldn’t ‘need’ a tune.

Your results may vary, your setup seems like one step bigger than what mine was.

Good to know! I don't plan on racing/tracking the car, so I'm mainly concerned on the safety aspect of the engine is all. It's set at 12 degrees currently but will probably knock it down to 10 degrees and see how it runs.

 

[86HO5.0]

You're leaving power on the table without a tune. A wideband is HIGHLY suggested regardless.

FWIW--One of the reasons I went to a standalone and tuned my car was the AFR's I was seeing at part throttle. 40-50% throttle at 2-3k the car was hitting 17-17.5 AFR. Speed Density.

 

[AeroCoupe]

Just me but if you are buying the injectors go to 30's with that setup. Will give you a little headroom if needed later. 24's will be up close to if not at 90 to 95% duty at WOT. My 306 with similar mods maxed the 24's out so I went to 42's knowing I was going to build a 331 later down the road.

I would not go any larger that 30's with a "calibrated" MAF and you really should get a tune at this point.

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[Noobz347]

30 lb injectors are where "calibrated" MAFs start breaking down on a stock EEC without a tune.

Some combos do very well while others don't.

This is where I start making the suggestion to ignore "calibrated" meters. Get a good full-range, high resolution OEM (like a Lightning) and put that high dollar MAF money toward a tune.

 

[86HO5.0]

30 lb injectors are where "calibrated" MAFs start breaking down on a stock EEC without a tune.

Some combos do very well while others don't.

This is where I start making the suggestion to ignore "calibrated" meters. Get a good full-range, high resolution OEM (like a Lightning) and put that high dollar MAF money toward a tune.

The cost of a good MAF was another reason I went standalone. Wasn't much more money to go MS and unlock Pandora's box without any constraints moving forward.

 

[gkomo]

Just me but if you are buying the injectors go to 30's with that setup. Will give you a little headroom if needed later. 24's will be up close to if not at 90 to 95% duty at WOT. My 306 with similar mods maxed the 24's out so I went to 42's knowing I was going to build a 331 later down the road.

I would not go any larger that 30's with a "calibrated" MAF and you really should get a tune at this point.

SCT Dealer Locator - SCT Performance

Locate SCT Dealers near you. Simply plug in your info to find a convenient SCT dealer in your area.

sctflash.com

Would an SCT chip be a better option than a Quarterhorse?

 

[Noobz347]

The cost of a good MAF was another reason I went standalone. Wasn't much more money to go MS and unlock Pandora's box without any constraints moving forward.

It's a huge advantage to be able to just [tell] the EEC what the physical characteristics of the injectors and MAF are.

 

[86HO5.0]

Would an SCT chip be a better option than a Quarterhorse?

IMO--Not necessarily. If going with a SCT or Quarterhorse, why not go a PimpXS or other PNP MS based standalone. Better processor, more options moving forward and virtually zero limitations. Granted there's a a learning curve to tuning, but it's not difficult. Take your time and do your homework. The end results are worth it.

 

[gkomo]

IMO--Not necessarily. If going with a SCT or Quarterhorse, why not go a PimpXS or other PNP MS based standalone. Better processor, more options moving forward and virtually zero limitations. Granted there's a a learning curve to tuning, but it's not difficult. Take your time and do your homework. The end results are worth it.

None of the 'major' brand standalone systems are SMOG legal, as far as i can tell from my research.

Although a SCT or Quarterhorse may not be technically SMOG legal, since they piggyback onto the stock ECU those functions remain and therefore could most likely sneak under the radar during SMOG checks. Unfortunate side effect of living in CA.

 

[86HO5.0]

You're correct on the SMOG legal. I frequently forget about the laws in Taxifornia. Good point.

 

[Noobz347]

None of the 'major' brand standalone systems are SMOG legal, as far as i can tell from my research.

Although a SCT or Quarterhorse may not be technically SMOG legal, since they piggyback onto the stock ECU those functions remain and therefore could most likely sneak under the radar during SMOG checks. Unfortunate side effect of living in CA.

Did you ever call that shop you were gonna call about Cali tunes and legalities?

What did they say?

 

[gkomo]

Did you ever call that shop you were gonna call about Cali tunes and legalities?

What did they say?

I haven’t. I sort of figured I’m gonna wait to get back into the house… take care of all the other stuff I have to do (may even try tackling the heads myself)… THEN pursue the tune route.

 

[karhoot]

So being in CT, I don't have to worry about smog. At the moment, the plan is to run the 24lbs as I have 0 plans to do anything at the moment & I got them for free. Later down the line, I absolutely planned on upgrading. So the consensus is, definitely tune? If so, standalone or chip. I would be opt for learning standalone. This is all going on a stock bottom end car. Did do a dry compression test with 145-150 across all 8 cylinders. Planned on doing a bottom end rebuild this winter.

 

[Noobz347]

So being in CT, I don't have to worry about smog. At the moment, the plan is to run the 24lbs as I have 0 plans to do anything at the moment & I got them for free. Later down the line, I absolutely planned on upgrading. So the consensus is, definitely tune? If so, standalone or chip. I would be opt for learning standalone. This is all going on a stock bottom end car. Did do a dry compression test with 145-150 across all 8 cylinders. Planned on doing a bottom end rebuild this winter.

I personally, don't see anything wrong with this:

Holley Systemax II
B-21
AFR 185cc
24lb injectors
MAF conversion w/ 75mm TB/MAF sensor (fender well intake)
Car is a 5-speed w/ 3.73 gears installed already

except for maybe the cam.

I would talk to a cam expert and get something that will make the most use of those heads. The 185s are even bit large for this build but... If you're anything like many of us: The engine will continue to grow into them. lol

The 24s and "calibrated" MAF will get you there on just about any street build.

Tell the cam guy exactly what you got and that you want a grind that also works well with the stock EEC.

 

[karhoot]

I personally, don't see anything wrong with this:



except for maybe the cam.

I would talk to a cam expert and get something that will make the most use of those heads. The 185s are even bit large for this build but... If you're anything like many of us: The engine will continue to grow into them. lol

The 24s and "calibrated" MAF will get you there on just about any street build.

Tell the cam guy exactly what you got and that you want a grind that also works well with the stock EEC.

So since I'm running the "calibrated" MAF, I shouldn't need a tune with these mild of upgrades? And actually I'll be sending cam/head specs over to a machine shop near me to possibly adjust the cam a bit if need be.

 

[Noobz347]

So since I'm running the "calibrated" MAF, I shouldn't need a tune with these mild of upgrades? And actually I'll be sending cam/head specs over to a machine shop near me to possibly adjust the cam a bit if need be.

Correct.

An adjusted meter along with 24 lb injectors is within the EEC's ability to adapt and usually works very well.

Also... If you happen to come across a Cobra or Explorer intake for cheap, it might save you a little money and wake that combo up a little on the bottom/middle. If you already have the Holley, it's not really worth a swap.

 

[karhoot]

Correct.

An adjusted meter along with 24 lb injectors is within the EEC's ability to adapt and usually works very well.

Also... If you happen to come across a Cobra or Explorer intake for cheap, it might save you a little money and wake that combo up a little on the bottom/middle. If you already have the Holley, it's not really worth a swap.

Funny enough. The guy selling the Holley fell through so I'm still in the market. I've been seeing a lot of Cobra/Explorer intakes for CHEAP. Also could get my hands on a Edlebrock RPM w/ 75mm TB for $300.

 

[Noobz347]

Funny enough. The guy selling the Holley fell through so I'm still in the market. I've been seeing a lot of Cobra/Explorer intakes for CHEAP. Also could get my hands on a Edlebrock RPM w/ 75mm TB for $300.

For the amount of time you spend at the RPM that these intakes are effective, they are hard to beat. Can you get more peak HP from larger intakes? Yes.