Alignment question...

elite130 · Apr 3, 2006

So...I lowered my car a month ago and let it settle for three weeks. I went to get it aligned and the shop manager suggested I get a 4-wheel alignment. I told him I only needed a 2 wheel alignment since the rear is a fixed solid axle. He said I still should get a 4-wheel alignment, if I didn't, the front wheels wouldn't line up with the rears and the car could be doglegging (driving at an angle) and I would get additional wear on the tires. I've never heard about this. I aligned only my my front wheels on my old '98 and had no problems with wear or anything. I think this guy is feeding me S***. Help me out with this.

tomustang · Apr 3, 2006

yes he's feeding you s***, live axles do NOT need an alignment.

StangPro · Apr 3, 2006

All cars should get a 4 wheel or thrust angle alignment. With a 2 wheel, the front wheels may be offset to the rears and the car will not track straight.

Don't let them cheese out and torque after print though, or it'll be useless.

bdcardinal · Apr 4, 2006

um, dont go to this guy. in ANY alignment you do adjustments in the following order rear camber, rear toe, front caster, front camber front toe. this is because the alignment on the front is based off the rear wheels. any advanced machine uses all 4 sensors and takes the measurements for the fronts based on the rears. you still set everything up the same, just that on some cars you just adjust the fronts. there are some cars, mostly european cars, where you have to have weight in the car, which i think should be done with every car because its takes into account someone sitting in the drivers seat. they also usually require a factory (read mercedes, bmw and audi) scan tool attached to put the suspension in "learn mode". just be happy you dont own a newer VW, Audi or chrylser 300 chassis based vehicle. to properly adjust front camber and caster you have to move the front subframe.

mransr · Apr 4, 2006

4 wheel alignments don't mean they adjust all 4 wheel...it means that check all 4 wheels and make sure they are all correct...

if you've got an old Ford pick-up 'field car' go ahead and get a 2 wheel alignment, but if you want the best tire wear and driveabilty get a 4 wheel alignment...

HoustonGT · Apr 4, 2006

Good to know, I'll be sure to have my alignment done next time by someone who checks the rear too in relation to the front

merc123 · Apr 4, 2006

I always get 4-wheel. Even after lowering with a pro-kit only one aspect of the suspension was 1/10th out of spec. The CC plates should handle that though

hotrodnut · Apr 4, 2006

Unless you have a panhard bar and upper and lower adjustable control arms there is nothing to adjust in the rear, they can check it but they can't do a thing to it without having the above mentioned.

Mike97gt · Apr 4, 2006

nothing is getting adjusted on the rear of our cars.

tomustang is 100 percent right.

the reason they are telling you to get a 4 wheel is because of the difference in price. sometiems it's as much as 50 dollar difference

plus if you have a car that you can adjust the rear on still don't get a 4 wheel. I have yet to meet any tech that adjusts the rear wheels when doing a 4 wheel or 2 wheel alignment.

99 percent of customers will never notice the rear being off and 99.99999999999999 percent of the time the rear is fine. so this is just skiped and not adjusted and is extra money in the shop and techs pcoket.

personally I love 4 wheel alignments. it's like free money.

EPIK · Apr 4, 2006

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but I need help in this area also.I cant figure out why the rear end on my car sits about a 1/4-1/2 inch crooked. I didnt even notice until I installed 18/10 inch rims on the rear. On the right side of my car I could easily fit 3 fingers between the front of the tire & the rear quarter, and on the left I couldnt fit three fingers. The toe is different on both sides also. The left toe is 0.27 degrees, & the right is -0.13 degrees.I had the frame shop that did my alignment look at the rear subframe, and they said it wasnt bent, and that it might have came from the factory like that. as far as I know my car has never been in any accidents, at least carfax says so. Its not that big of a deal, but it just annoys me because it doesnt look right to me. The only other thing I could see causing this is if my maximum motorsports lower control arms are defective, which I doubt. Could removing the quad shocks cause this? Any info will help

DerekStangGT · Apr 4, 2006

svttech76 said:
nothing is getting adjusted on the rear of our cars.

tomustang is 100 percent right.

the reason they are telling you to get a 4 wheel is because of the difference in price. sometiems it's as much as 50 dollar difference

plus if you have a car that you can adjust the rear on still don't get a 4 wheel. I have yet to meet any tech that adjusts the rear wheels when doing a 4 wheel or 2 wheel alignment.

99 percent of customers will never notice the rear being off and 99.99999999999999 percent of the time the rear is fine. so this is just skiped and not adjusted and is extra money in the shop and techs pcoket.

personally I love 4 wheel alignments. it's like free money.

yup, tomustang and svt are correct. there is no adjustment on the rear of a solid axle. however svt, here at Acura we always sell 4 wheel alignments. very rarely will i perform a 2 wheel only. the rear toe is adjustable on Acuras, and i do adjust the rear. im not one of those shady techs. most of the time, the rear toe will be off, along with the front. so i do actually perform 4 wheel alignments

DerekStangGT · Apr 4, 2006

EPIKGT said:
Sorry for hijacking your thread, but I need help in this area also.I cant figure out why the rear end on my car sits about a 1/4-1/2 inch crooked. I didnt even notice until I installed 18/10 inch rims on the rear. On the right side of my car I could easily fit 3 fingers between the front of the tire & the rear quarter, and on the left I couldnt fit three fingers. The toe is different on both sides also. The left toe is 0.27 degrees, & the right is -0.13 degrees.I had the frame shop that did my alignment look at the rear subframe, and they said it wasnt bent, and that it might have came from the factory like that. as far as I know my car has never been in any accidents, at least carfax says so. Its not that big of a deal, but it just annoys me because it doesnt look right to me. The only other thing I could see causing this is if my maximum motorsports lower control arms are defective, which I doubt. Could removing the quad shocks cause this? Any info will help

as far as your car sitting crooked, it might be the position of the springs. i noticed you had aftermarket H&Rs. look at the bottom pigtail of each spring and what direction the end pigtail is facing while sitting in the LCA. if they are pointing different directions, your rear will sit ****-eyed. i made this same mistake when i did my springs. check that first

EDIT: i just noticed you had adjustable LCAs too. thats the problem right there. just adjust one side to sit higher or lower, depending if you want to raise or lower the rear. but still check your springs

Mike97gt · Apr 4, 2006

DerekStangGT said:
yup, tomustang and svt are correct. there is no adjustment on the rear of a solid axle. however svt, here at Acura we always sell 4 wheel alignments. very rarely will i perform a 2 wheel only. the rear toe is adjustable on Acuras, and i do adjust the rear. im not one of those shady techs. most of the time, the rear toe will be off, along with the front. so i do actually perform 4 wheel alignments

many fords do have adjusments for the rear but I have only seen a few that were off.

EPIK · Apr 4, 2006

What I meant by crooked is that the right rear wheel is pushed farther back, and the left rear wheel is pushed farther forward, not that the car is not sitting level. I appreciate the help and I am going to look at the springs. The only adjustment on the MM lca's is in the spring perch, which only makes the car sit higher or lower.

EPIK · Apr 4, 2006

I just checked the pigtail in the rear springs , and they are both in the same direction, pointing towards the rear.

HoustonGT · Apr 4, 2006

EPIKGT said:
I just checked the pigtail in the rear springs , and they are both in the same direction, pointing towards the rear.

I thought theyre both supposed to point forward and in the same direction. Someone correct me if im wrong

EPIK · Apr 4, 2006

HoustonGT said:
I thought theyre both supposed to point forward and in the same direction. Someone correct me if im wrong

I dunno?

SaleenGT2001 · Apr 4, 2006

svttech76 said:
plus if you have a car that you can adjust the rear on still don't get a 4 wheel. I have yet to meet any tech that adjusts the rear wheels when doing a 4 wheel or 2 wheel alignment.

99 percent of customers will never notice the rear being off and 99.99999999999999 percent of the time the rear is fine. so this is just skiped and not adjusted and is extra money in the shop and techs pcoket.

I always adjust the rear if it is adjustable.i adjust them even it the total toe is in spec but the indidvidual toe is out. if i didnt i would be out of a job!!! i know that mustangs have no rear adjustmet, but other cars such as honda, toyota etc... do have adjustment. if you dont fix the rear also you CAN have
MAJOR tire wear issues. back to the stang. make sure the shop you take it to has an alignment machine that uses lasers. hunter dsp 400 or dsp 600 would be the machines i would look for. also i would say that almost 50% of cars that are out of alignment are out BOTH front and rear. maybe not so many new cars but any 3 years and older usually are. anyways just find a shop that uses a NEWER alignment machine!! the days of 2 wheel alignments are long gone!!!

tomustang · Apr 4, 2006

EPIKGT said:
Sorry for hijacking your thread, but I need help in this area also.I cant figure out why the rear end on my car sits about a 1/4-1/2 inch crooked. I didnt even notice until I installed 18/10 inch rims on the rear. On the right side of my car I could easily fit 3 fingers between the front of the tire & the rear quarter, and on the left I couldnt fit three fingers. The toe is different on both sides also. The left toe is 0.27 degrees, & the right is -0.13 degrees.I had the frame shop that did my alignment look at the rear subframe, and they said it wasnt bent, and that it might have came from the factory like that. as far as I know my car has never been in any accidents, at least carfax says so. Its not that big of a deal, but it just annoys me because it doesnt look right to me. The only other thing I could see causing this is if my maximum motorsports lower control arms are defective, which I doubt. Could removing the quad shocks cause this? Any info will help

^ your answer, production tolerances from ford for the chassis

bdcardinal · Apr 5, 2006

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=4

execellent explination of alignments. o, and whenever i have a car with adjustable rears, i do it. i have to according to my employer. plus they are usually pretty easy, except ford SUVs. or old cars where i just spray all the adjusters with penetrating oil and tell the customer to come back in a week.

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