All lifters bad? Doubtful but maybe

Hi,
Couple questions so I may give direct responses..
I’ve not noted all (16) fail in 20+ years, doesn’t mean it’s impossible The Idle is rough, did it run strong- were they noisy, what caused you to replace them, noisy?
1) Lifters are removed, or still in the block?
2) Is there any possibility that they are solid lifters, are you 100% they’re Hydraulic?
- If they’re out of the Block, I’d pull the clip off & disassemble one to see what examination reveals. Don’t want to run Hydraulic lifters on a solid lifter cam.
-If still in the Block, some install restrictors to delay bleed down time, running high viscosity oil may do the same.
Good luck!
-John

Hi,
So it’s apparent you have some serious contaminants/crud within your Oil. Plunger is the appropriate term. Yes, it takes little particulate within Oil to stick Hydraulic lifters, higher levels to achieve as described. Yes, the internal retaining ring pops out & allows you to gut the lifter & view its components- strongly suggest permanently marking to prevent it’s reused once opened.
A bit late, but a good practice:
When considering the replacement of components in a sludge contaminated motor, it’s best to first perform an engine flush to best eradicate that contamination.
(I would NOT use ANY flush while breaking new lifters in, unless MFG backs it). Only Before, or after..
You’ve 1, possibly 2 things to think about.
1) Your new flat Tappet lifters need to break in to your Cam, and you’ve contaminants within your Oil that may make this more difficult. If you’re running Hydraulic Roller lifters, no break-in, disregard #1.
2) Once the lifters are replaced, the same sludge circulating within your Oil sticking existing lifters will be pumped inside the new Hydraulic lifters. Should be cleansed prior to, or quickly afterwards
Approaches would be:
A) Reassembly. Reinstall existing lifters (if 100% certain they are in exact order so they may be installed back on the Cam lobes they’ve mated to, if mated incorrect it may wipe both the Cam lobe & lifter) & running the motor with an engine flush additive. If flushed prior to teardown, probability’s high of reacquiring normal lifter function. Cost is Oil, Filter, flush, Gaskets.
B) Reinstall the old lifters, Pushrods, Rockers. Add a high detergent oil & engine flush, OE filter. Spin the pump drive with a drill for about 30 seconds, stop. Rotate the engine via Crank bolt/breaker bar 30 degrees. Spin the drive again, get the motor to a 180 Degree Crank spin. Stop.
Hold off for an hour. Resume until you get one full 360 degree rotation, dump the oil & replace with the same oil type, filter. Move on with new lifter installation. Although this will help, I suggest a repeat after lifters break in. Engine heat is a strong component in a good Oil system flush.
C) Dump Oil. Run a High detergent oil & OE filter, prime the Pump with a Drill. Cross your fingers & ensure the break-in is textbook, set base timing ASAP with a light- mark the balancer, ensure coolant is topped off with no air within, do everything possible so the motor fires quick & the process is not interrupted with an overheat, etc.
You may get away with “C”, listed the others as options, I’ve used “B” previously with Customer cars as requested, one with a severely contaminated engine with a snapped Timing chain, another with a rotted pan replacement, installing new Main Bearings & Pump, sitting on a lift.
Do the System flush once break-in is complete. It may seem excessive, but 10 Quarts of oil, flush, Filters is cheap vs. poor oil quality sticking lifters, warning, galleys are likely restricted, damage of Main & Rod Bearings, Rings, Cylinders, Crank, will ensue. doing what’s possible to save the motor seems to make the most sense.
- Whatever method you choose, apply Comp’s flat Tappet break-in lube on the Cam lobes with a brush through the lifter bores, roll the motor to cover every lobe 360Deg. Cover the Lifter bases, ensure the bores are clean of break in lube, lightly oiled.
(Process I use for breaking in flat Tappet Cams, Hydraulic & Solid. I remove inner Valve spring for high Spring pressures(>400lbs@ Full Lift. You’re likely well below this.)
Use Cam/lifter break-in recommendations, use this as reference, if needed.
Sit at 2,000 RPM’s for 5-7 minutes, drop to 1,200RPM’s for 10, idle (650-800RPM’s) for another 5. Cool off, dump & change the Oil, Filter, adding the flush to clear the motor out. Follow the flush Mfg’s recommendations.
Change Oil/Filter, detergent Oil & Drive.
I don’t subscribe to, nor recommend most additives, Sea Foam, etc. But there are some genuinely proven ones, have their due place. Lucas products are generally legitimate. Zinc & Friction modifiers
Most impressed with another product (twice now) with “Liqui-Moly 2037” as an engine flush.
Once the Cam/lifter break in is done, engine is flushed of contaminants, put a few miles on it, may be to your advantage once oil drains clean to now run a quality full synthetic lubricant to reduce friction, if desired.
Mobil 1, Ford Synthetic, Royal Purple are excellent choices, if high mileage, all offer modified versions for that purpose.
Any questions, don’t hesitate.
Good luck!
John

.What about Sea Foam in a cold engine, once hot change it. Sounds crazy but I was also thinking of paint thinner. Like 1/2 gallon , Paint thinner is great for cleaning a nasty bell housing or inside of an intake .Same procedure. Very similar to parts cleaner. . Those Quarts of engine flush scare me.I believe my motor needs it.

Hi,
Just wanted you to be aware of what the text suggested, I’ve seen this scenario before. Wanted you to be aware & look at it 3 dimensionally is all, apologize for the long dissertation, did the points make sense? Wasn’t trying to intimidate, only share what I knew, ways around it. lol.
Desire, as I know you do, for a best scenario outcome. By the subtle comments you made, seemed to be pretty significant amount of buildup within. The reason you headed into the Motor, noisy Lifters, poor drivability- correct? Why it occurred is not related to something you did.
LONG term effect of infrequent oil changes gaining sediment, oil breaking down. Once refined oil degradation begins, (3) categories of breakdown issues occur. Viscosity changes sticky when hot, repeated heat exposure causes it to turn into a crud laden Tar substance, it sticks into the porous casting laden block & anything else it can, Including itself.
Good article describing oil degradation, if interested: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/475/oil-breakdown
As expected- If not eradicated- it will continue to repeat restricting passages to components.
Breaking in a flat tappet Cam & Lifters may fail under good/average conditions. Providing those Lifters never stop rotating during break-in, running the strong break-in lube with media on lobes/Lifters, following below. Once that break-in is done, start to flush the crud out as soon as possible. Oil should eventually run clean with the short flush(es). Running a detergent oil will work, cost of Filters & Oil.
Best advice I can recommend is to ensure you give it those Lifters the best chance to break in, no interruptions. That’s where many break-in issues occur, a linear process performed correctly will help swing the odds in your favor.
Engine setup to fire quick & run for the duration, have it close to timed before firing, light at the ready (mark the base timing mark @10Deg.with a white mark on the balancer). Change out the oil/Filter with a good detergent type & OE Filter, then perform the sludge removal for after the break-in with engine flush, until the Oil runs clean.
Unless you’re going aggressive (Listed as “B”’in preceding text) I wouldn’t stir the sludge up any more than you have to.
One more option, If you replaced the Oil/Filter without the flush & removed the Lifters, manually spun the pump to push new oil through those passages, then dump a quart of fresh oil over the heads & into the valley so it all ends up in the pan, removing that oil & replacing Oil/Filter again may also help for the break-in.
Recently, I’d answered a SN post & was really shocked that LUNATI suggested running Seafoam in a members fresh Stroker Motor with suspected contaminants entered during it’s ass’y to bring their Hyd Roller Lifters to come to life. Think it was last resort, but we uncovered the actual issue in time (Stud locks hitting the Rocker slots@ full lift) & correcting that avoided it’s use. But the fact one recommended it is far insufficient evidence for me to use, much less recommend it’s use to another.
I’ve never run it, nor seen a lasting improvement by others adding it. Only real life way to properly clear out a Block is by boiling it. Sometimes it takes >1 boil overnight to remove excess buildup. Doing an Oil flush with a good product is about the best you can do, engine assembled in Car.
Ironically, people install parts like this & some get away with no issues, then some don’t. In this scenario- if it wipes a Lifter, it’ll likely take a Lobe with it. That iron will stick like flypaper to wherever buildup exists. Then you’re looking at...forget it, I’ll leave it at that. You’ll be OK.
I’m not trying to come across negatively. Just to convey, in case you didn’t know, some good approaches to removing circulating crud- do the break-in, then pulling the sludge out over a time period without a chunk dislodging and blocking a passage, entirely.
That’s why they are potent, but not so aggressive regarding timelines. I’ve been around a few boneyard motors & some got by, running different aggressive solvents in varied dilution, some spun Bearings from rapidly occurring media chunks causing blockage/starvation. Slow & deliberate is, IMO, the best approach. Once flushed, you’ll get significant amounts, high detergent oils will finish the process over a little time. Then jump to Synthetic.
It’s a proven repeatable process with good results, avoiding potential harm of materials that may fail if exposed to such Solvents, Seals, etc, .
Any questions, don’t hesitate!
-John

Hi,
I’m sorry for the delay, just noted this & will prepare a more tailored response.
Change to a detergent oil now, will not affect the lifters from breaking in-
Change it before you start it...
Just DON’T add CRANKCASE FLUSH to the engine Oil until you’ve broken the lifters in properly. It takes a specific type of break-in for flat Tappet lifters to correctly “mate” to the Cam lobes,
The Cam/Lifter Break-In starts as soon as you start the motor after reassembly is complete, as listed in my SECOND Response to you. If uncertain about that, please let me know, before you start the Motor, or close it up. You MUST use the right Break-in lube.
hit the link below & see if it helps.

I wouldn’t pour OIL over the valley area, you don’t want the break-in lube to get washed off the Cam & Lifters. A little bit over the Springs & Rockers (on the Heads)
is fine.
Did you use “Flat Tappet Camshaft Break-in lube” on the Lifters & Cam lobes? It’ll be formulated for (Non Roller) Camshafts. (It’s for “Break-in” of Solid or Hydraulic FLAT TAPPET Cams & Lifters).,
it helps ensure a proper break-to Cam break in, contains what feels to be particles within it when rubbed between the Fingers.
NOT the same as Assembly lube for ROLLER Cams, you are not running ROLLER- Type Lifters- Correct? THEY require no break-in.
Once run for the correct period of time after initial startup,, you need to change your Oil and Filter again to remove it.
Fill the oil filter through the center hole (One with the threads) and what remains of (5) Quarts into the Filler on the Valve cover.
Make sure you wait 10 minutes so you see it register on the dipstick.
Talk to you later,
John

Hi, Sorry-
Want you to have the right info, so things go well for you. Sta-Lube works just fine due to it’s ability to “tarry” texture & ability to stay put during break in. The lobes SHOULD also be covered with it, but I’ve seen it do well applied on lifters alone on a lifter break-in.
You only coat the bottoms of the Lifters, if you coat the sides, it can interrupt the rotation that all flat Tappet lifters perform across their lifetime. The Cam lobes are offset from the center of the lifter when installed, causing the lifters rotation.
When a Cam/Lifter break in fails, it’s usually due to a lifter that stops rotation during break in, the Cam lobe destroys it and itself..
No, not all oils are Detergent, some have it in varying degrees. Some none. Synthetic oils are great as Friction modifiers, but will not even allow a new Motors piston rings to “seat”, a little friction is required.
AFTER the Cam break-in, you can run Synthetics, but you should aim at flushing the crud out with High Detergent oil, and the engine flush added that I’d mentioned.
Or, those lifters will Plug back up & god knows what else.
And.. Using flush & detergent oils, a few filters isnot expensive.
Good Reading :


Think a call is in order..
-John

Hi, Article I’d sent you- previously, key points. I’d revised it, slightly- showing the most important items with ~~~>!!..

Use Break-In Oil, I’d recommend

• This benefits all parts of the engine, not just the camshaft.
• If your oil doesn't have a Zinc or ZDDP additive, use a Zinc Additive
• —>!!!!!!Synthetic or API-rated SL, SM, or SN oil is not recommended.
• Do not "pump up" hydraulic lifters.
• Do not exceed Recommended Valve Spring Pressures.
  • Disregard—>Performance engines using high valve spring pressures should use a lighter set of springs for the break-in procedure.
  • Disregard—>If you have double or triple springs, remove the inner springs during the break-in procedure.
• ~~>!!!If possible, break in the engine with the valve covers off.(Don’t tighten them, if you have Studs, Thread them in and let the cover rest on u UiioThis will make a mess, to avoid- cut some pieces of cardboard sheet that run over tche top of the manifolds/Headers, over to the Fenderwells, the Oil will land thhèfnnnot hit the hot manifolds.
• Have some old towels in a bucket of Water, and an ABC Fire extinguisher close-by, (just in case).
• ~~>!!!!Watch the pushrods to make sure they are spinning.
  • ~~>!!If they are not spinning, gently spin them with your fingers to start the process.

Procedure

1. Install the Camshaft.
2. Set the Valve Lash or Preload as recommended by the manufacturer(1/2 to 3/4 turn at zero lash (As you’re tightening the Rocker, the pushrod will get less & less sloppy (up & down movement). Once you get no pushrod play, Pushrods hitting Rocker & lifter, no play (Zero lash) turn. an a
3. dditional 1/2-3/4 Turn . Preload is done!
4. —>!!!Prime the Oiling System.
5. ~~>!!!!Set the Initial Ignition Timing.as soon as , with a light
6. For carbureted engines, make sure fuel bowls are full and any air is bled from the fuel lines.
7. ~~>!!Ensure.Coolant is topped off, and free of air.
8. ~~>!!!Start the engine and immediately raise rpm to 3,000.
9. ~~>!!!!Vary rpm between 1,500 and 3,000 for the next 20-30 minutes.
   1. —>!!Use a slow, steady acceleration/deceleration pattern.
10. ~~>!!Shut down the engine and let it cool.
11. Initial break in is now complete...
12. ~~>!!Drain the oil and change the oil & filter.
    1. This removes any metal particles from the break-in process.
13. ~~>Refill the engine with a petroleum-based oil and zinc additive. I suggest avoiding Synthetic oil, temporarily. Run a high detergent Oil & flush to get the majority of crud into the pan.
14. Change oil & Filter.
15. If it’s as crudded up as you mentioned, may take a second flush as mentioned to get the oil running clean, as good as possible, engine in Car.
16. Run & drive it a bit with a high detergent Oil, then check what the Oil looks like, cut open every filter to see the media removed.
17. Change Oil & Filter.
18. Quick way to find a highly clogged filter is feeling the Filters exterior while warm, if it feels cool to the touch, it’s likely packed.
19. Talk further on crud eradication, just focus on getting the lifters broken in.