An apology from Historic.

HistoricMustang · Apr 3, 2004

Since I am at least partially responsible for "The Day the Earth Stood Still" being locked, I wanted to offer the group an apology. I put up the thread in response to a challenge and by now I should realize that those types of responses can easily become a "running gun battle".

Let me try to explain this again. It makes no difference to me what types of products that you put on your Mustang and it makes no difference to me what you do with your Mustang. To each his own. I have never said do not buy products from that three letter company that keeps being mentioned. I have said that you can get "better" performance from your early model without buying a lot of high dollar aftermarker products and I have said that my ride has had a lot of success at the track using basic common sense. If you have the resources, by all means, get the aftermarket products. They make great conversation and they will "help" the performance of the early model.

But, I will keep saying they are not needed to "improve" the performance and there are a lot of people, especially the younger ones, who do not yet have those financial resources. That is the group I am trying to help.

Very shortly I will have information put together on using the "4L's" to help the performance of these great automobiles. You can read about using these simple principles or you can ignor them, it makes no difference to me. Again, it does not matter to me but I hear from a lot of people who like the simple approach and I will keep those "types" of individuals informed.

One other point. My delivery is direct and is to the point as only maybe 30 minutes a day can be spent in front of a computer. I never quote people and I will walk away before getting into a "running gun battle" as these battles serve nothing but the destruction of what has developed into the best forum on the WWW for the Mustang.

Again my apology is up.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

akd67 · Apr 3, 2004

I dont see a need for a apology. Dont any of this stuff serious. Its the internet.

Opentracker · Apr 3, 2004

We also don't use the high dollar parts on our cars and get around the track just fine. In fact, we blow by a lot of the cars that have the tubular arms and stuff. The spindle doesn't care what it's bolted too. If it moves right the car will handle well. The rear end doesn't care what's bolted to it either. If it moves right you will have a nice car to drive. To think your car won't be welcome on the track without some 'bling' parts is dumb. Go to any vintage race or historics race and look under the Shelby's and other Mustangs at the track. You won't see any tubular parts. We build our cars with stock or modified stock parts. The best teachers are the folks who have done it before. These cars have been raced for the past 40 years without powdercoated parts. If you want the powdercoated parts great, but they won't make the car go any faster than a car without 'em.

John

67GTA-FB429 · Apr 3, 2004

If it don't go...chrome it!!

allcarfan · Apr 3, 2004

WHY DO WE INSIST UPON BEATING A DEAD HORSE????? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!

gp001 · Apr 3, 2004

Ding..Ding...Round 2 has officially begun. Remeber, no hitting below the belt, no biting, kicking, etc. Keep it clean and this fight might go the distance

Let's get it on................

Red Barchetta · Apr 3, 2004

Opentracker said:
... Go to any vintage race or historics race and look under the Shelby's and other Mustangs at the track. You won't see any tubular parts...

Maybe that's because the rules do not allow the use of said parts.

Ozsum67 · Apr 3, 2004

Explain to me why a former locked thread needs to be re-opened under a different name?

mustang466 · Apr 3, 2004

Edbert · Apr 3, 2004

It may not be PC but that never stopped me before...

Arguing on the internet is like playing in the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.

gp001 · Apr 3, 2004

Edbert said:
It may not be PC but that never stopped me before...

Arguing on the internet is like playing in the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.

You're also not original

Sorry, couldn't resist

bnickel · Apr 4, 2004

i'm all for low buck i don't want anyone to misundersatnd that, my car is all about low buck, and i'll probably be doing most of the stuff open tracker has done. but i and most of the people here want tech not opinions, results not boasting, and remember it's not boasting if you can back it up. i think i may have gotten a little too personal in the last thread and for that i apologize, i usually try not to be specific and start naming names. i personally can't afoord TCP or GW stuff right now, nor do i think i ever will having a family to raise, but i know there is more in these cars than just the "shelby drop". i know some people sat not to use a rear sway bar, but my car will be used on the street 98% of the time and a rear sway bar makes the car more predictable when pushed hard. i have no probelm with people not using a rear bar. how about we make this discussion a pro's and con's type of debate, that way nobody gets their feelings hurt on this one. something like,this is the way i have the car set up for the track but if was a street car i would do this or my car is a street car but if i took it to the track i would do this, and then explain why. alright everyone let's get those gloves up

hungrymonkey · Apr 4, 2004

I am starting to think that some of you really like having strife.

stop polluting the tech and start polluting the talk.

TireSmoknWindsr · Apr 4, 2004

Edbert said:
It may not be PC but that never stopped me before...

Arguing on the internet is like playing in the special olympics, even if you win you are still retarded.

Hey now we all learned from Fast and the Furious winning is winning whether an inch or a mile...least someone get's to be the happiest retard in the land thanks to the internet

Edbert · Apr 4, 2004

gp001 said:
You're also not original

Hehehe, never claimed to be the author. However it is one of the few universal truths in this here internet fad

2bav8 · Apr 4, 2004

Guys,

I'm on the verge of closing this thread.
Historic made an appology, and I'm not going to let this thread get out of control too.
Besides, this is supposed to be a Tech Forum

gp001 · Apr 4, 2004

Edbert said:
Hehehe, never claimed to be the author. However it is one of the few universal truths in this here internet fad

I beleive the original quote was coined by Mr. W.E. Todd after an argument with Mr. D.U. Moss

dolfan87 · Apr 4, 2004

2bav8 said:
Guys,

I'm on the verge of closing this thread.
Historic made an appology, and I'm not going to let this thread get out of control too.
Besides, this is supposed to be a Tech Forum

2bav, was that what that was? An apology?

You guys want to talk tech, let's talk tech.

First question, who here knows what is wrong with our Mustangs front suspension geometery? Do you know what happens when you lower the upper control arm an inch? AND do you know why you are doing it?

I guess that was more like 3 questions.

Here is a fact. The distance between the mounting points on the spindle, vs the mounting points on the car of both the UCA, and the LCA is off by a little more than an inch. This means that when the suspension travels in it's full cycle, you have changes in the caster/camber of the tire.

Now lowering the upper control arm puts the geometery in better shape, however it also puts the ball joint in a bind. If you are only going down an inch, it may never give you any problems, but again the UCA should be shortened if you are going to lower it to provide optimum performance from both the ball joint and the arm.

However I am sure no one here wants to try and shorten the factory arm, and I would NOT recommend doing it either.

Another problem that the factory stamped arms have is flexing during hard cornering. Many people have boxed in the arms to stop this, and that works great, but it still doesn't correct the problems discussed above.

You can box in the arms, buy the negative wedge kits, bump steer correctors, lower the control arms, and get in the ball park. However why not just fix it at the source, and put the geometery in it's correct place?

Money is probably why, but if you are seriously going to race your car, money shouldn't be the issue.

If you are just going to drive the car on the street, then when or why are you going to go fast enough to NEED to correct the suspensions built in faults?

I plan to run my car in the Silver State Classic. I have a very good reason for doing what I have done with my suspension. The question everyone else has to ask themselves is this; will I ever NEED the high dollar stuff?

87

gp001 · Apr 4, 2004

The problem here is that there are many ways to skin the cat and all too often people believe their way is the only way. What works for one may, or may not, work for all. Can you race these cars bone stock? Yep. Can you race them modified like Historic's? Yep. Can you race them modified like Opentracker's? Yep. Can you race them modified with a partial, or full TCP, GW, etc? Yep. Can race them modified with a full chassis and custom fabbed suspension? Yep.

So why argue one vs. the other? Until we get all the above cars on the same track with the same driver we will never know. Build what suits your driving style, taste, and budget.

dolfan87 · Apr 4, 2004

gp001 said:
The problem here is that there are many ways to skin the cat and all too often people believe their way is the only way. What works for one may, or may not, work for all. Can you race these cars bone stock? Yep. Can you race them modified like Historic's? Yep. Can you race them modified like Opentracker's? Yep. Can you race them modified with a partial, or full TCP, GW, etc? Yep. Can race them modified with a full chassis and custom fabbed suspension? Yep.

So why argue one vs. the other? Until we get all the above cars on the same track with the same driver we will never know. Build what suits your driving style, taste, and budget.

Yeah what he said.

87

An apology from Historic.

HistoricMustang

Active Member

akd67

Banned

Opentracker

67GTA-FB429

Member

allcarfan

The Answer Man

gp001

Red Barchetta

Ozsum67

Too much thin air

mustang466

New Member

Edbert

gp001

bnickel

hungrymonkey

White by Birth, Trash By Choice

TireSmoknWindsr

Edbert

2bav8

gp001

dolfan87

gp001

dolfan87

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