Any new rack and pinion choices ?

babaker · Sep 8, 2005

I have a Randalls Rack in my 66.

I installed one of Randalls kits. I cannot say enough good things about his product or his service.

Randalls basically retains the same geometry as the stock setup. The stock Mustang did not have much bump steer, however if it is lowered etc... it will increase some. So by simply installing Randalls you sill not notice any more bumpsteer.

The turning radius increase is not all that noticeable, tight parking lots can be a bit of a chore, but I can still make u-turns etc...

Both the bumpsteer, and turning radius can be corrected with a bumpsteer correction kit like the ones from pro-motorsports. Because they lower the outer tie rod end and move it forward on the spindle.

The responsivness and feel of the car are now incompareable to before. It is unbelievable!

The entire kit is well engineered and easy to install.

If I had to do it again I would without hesitation.

Brent

bnickel · Sep 8, 2005

thanks Brent, i know that info will be helpful to others looking to converst to rack and pinion. i do honestly beleive it is the best value out there right now, since it is comparable in price to replacing the entire steering system if you have power steering already.

Edbert · Sep 8, 2005

Randall is a great guy, he used to post here many years ago, but I don't rmember the handle.

FWIW I bought a manual TCP rack for $950 and it came with all hardware, mounted it in about an hour without hurrying, and it cleared the 8-quart pan, and the headers.

mcode · Sep 8, 2005

Thank you for your replies

i would like to thank everyone for their replies, and the honest input. when i started this thread i wanted to provoke a reaction and a honest debate. All i can say is the people on stangnet are great guys and have always helped out members with their knowlege and experience. Kudos

DarkBuddha · Sep 8, 2005

As for me, as I've well indicated in past threads, I am primarily interested in maximizing the performance of the stock system. I have promoted discussions of the possibilities of improved steering boxes, better power control methods, possible swaps/retrofits, and system modifications. Unfortunately, I haven't had much luck in generating much interest, but I'm looking forward to more companies doing more towards this area, like FR has done with improved steering box designs.

**Edited to keep my tone more reasonable.

66Runt · Sep 8, 2005

There is a PS box that will fit the 67 and up

Don't know if it will fit the '64-'66 era though.
I talked to a vendor at the last Good guys who would sell me the complete system (suposedly out of a Corona, but I think that may not be right) With PS pump and lines for about $550.00.
I've got his card at home, so if you are interested I'll give you the web address when I get back into town tomorrow. Along with more details on what he was talking about.

I almost went for this on my '66 (changing the steer column to late model colapsable, but decided on the rack instead).

As to the Pro Motorsports bump steer kit, my only issue is that you have set your suspension to the kit, rather than the bumpsteer kit to the suspension. Still I may try it after the front end is rebuilt and lowered, if I have an issue with bump steer.

Scott

DarkBuddha · Sep 8, 2005

66Runt said:
Don't know if it will fit the '64-'66 era though.
I talked to a vendor at the last Good guys who would sell me the complete system (suposedly out of a Corona, but I think that may not be right) With PS pump and lines for about $550.00.
I've got his card at home, so if you are interested I'll give you the web address when I get back into town tomorrow. Along with more details on what he was talking about.

POST IT UP ASAP!!!! (and yes, I meant to yell).

babaker · Sep 8, 2005

DarkBuddha said:
As for me, as I've well indicated in past threads, I am primarily interested in maximizing the performance of the stock system. I have promoted discussions of the possibilities of improved steering boxes, better power control methods, possible swaps/retrofits, and system modifications. Unfortunately, I haven't had much luck in generating much interest, but I'm looking forward to more companies doing more towards this area, like FR has done with improved steering box designs.

**Edited to keep my tone more reasonable.

I understand where your coming from. I have a lot of respect for those that are dedicated to keeping thier cars original. I would have liked to kept the original stuff, and the thought of putting a GM part on my ride really irked me.
The problem in my opinion, was the design of the original power system. It is perfectly adequate when the parts are new and in good condition, but it does not age well. The number of joints that allow for lateral movement, as well as the after thought design of the control valve, introduced more variables than I liked.
I seriously considered swapping out to a manual FR box and dump the PS all together

DarkBuddha · Sep 8, 2005

babaker said:
I understand where your coming from. I have a lot of respect for those that are dedicated to keeping thier cars original. I would have liked to kept the original stuff, and the thought of putting a GM part on my ride really irked me.
The problem in my opinion, was the design of the original power system. It is perfectly adequate when the parts are new and in good condition, but it does not age well. The number of joints that allow for lateral movement, as well as the after thought design of the control valve, introduced more variables than I liked.
I seriously considered swapping out to a manual FR box and dump the PS all together

It's not about keeping it original for me, but rather a matter of performance, cost, and service ability. I'm building my car as a driver and therefor have very specific requirements. Primarily, I cannot stand to lose any turning radius, I need it to be reasonably priced if I ever have to fix/replace anything and reasonable to fix/replace, and I have to be able to go to a local parts store or Mustang parts supplier and get whatever I need to repair it. I don't care if it's a GM part or a Toyota part or from a freaking Kia. If it improves the performance of the system, is reasonably priced, and is reasonable to service, and doesn't have any proprietary parts, then I'm all for it.

mrfomoco · Sep 8, 2005

I agree! I am currently removing the Power Steering from my Mach. I just received my new flaming river gear box and the billet u-joint is on its way to replace that cruddy rag-joint. I also just received my grab-a-trak PS delete adapter. I'm really excited about this, but also scared about how difficult it may be to turn. I will post updates.

Edbert · Sep 9, 2005

mrfomoco said:
I'm really excited about this, but also scared about how difficult it may be to turn.

It wont be a problem unless you are physically challenged in some way. I disabled the factory PS on every '67 I had. The old style PS was terrible IMHO, waaaay too much assist and as vague as the PS on Lincolns and Caddys used to be. The only thing I'd caution anyone considering going to a manual steering setup is this: KEEP THE BIG STEERING WHEEL. You would be amazed how much power that puts in your hands compared to a smaller more modern looking aftermarket wheel. If you've already replaced the steering wheel with a small one you may want to consider your existing upper-body-strength first. But even then it's only severe in a parking-lot situation.

Besides, I can use all the exercise I can get!

Travis77 · Sep 9, 2005

a little help needed also

Really enjoyed reading everyone's posts. Kinda new here but I am facing the same tough decision to make. I have a 67 fastback and the Global West coil over kit. Does anyone know might be the best power r&p that would maximize the rather large investment I have already made. Also I have a 351W base stroker motor with Brodix Track 1 heads ready to install. I am hoping to go with long tube(if possible) and the widest tire/wheels I can fit without hitting my tubular control arms. What kit would accomidate all this the best. I have called Global West several times, and really have not got too many answers. You would think they would have experimented with many differnent combos. Any help would be great guys. Doubt I will talk to too many folks that have this entire setup. Hope the original poster understand my frustration.Thanks

66Runt · Sep 9, 2005

Call and talk to Randy at Randall's Racks

He is very knowledgable on how his rack works with the GW negative roll system, as well as how different drops effect things like bumpersteer. He also knows what headers will work with his rack, in which application.
I had a pretty good list of questions for him, and am pretty knowledgable in suspension and steering. He had very good answers for all my questions, and wasn't at all pushy about me buying his rack. In fact I think I kind of suprised him at the end of our conversation when I ordered it.
The only other person I've talked to that is as well schooled in his product, was the guy from Maval. Unfortunately they only build a manual rack, which may be all you need.

After talking with him, it might be worth your while to call the other main manufacturers and get their responses. Then see which company you feel most comfortable with.

Good luck,

Scott

twuxtop · Sep 9, 2005

ok

ok whats the link to maval ...i fpund a site looks like maval, even says maval tthe onlykits i see are for 70's stangs. nd it looks crappy like flaming river having thos bendy springs rather than sloid tie rod attachments

66Runt · Sep 10, 2005

http://www.unisteer.com/home.php

Maval is the parent corp of Unisteer. which is why you probably couldn't find it.
Here is a the flyer for the new '65-'66 rack that I picked up at the car show.

Scott

bnickel · Sep 10, 2005

that kit actually looks much better than the FR kit. it looks like they actually took the time to engineer the rack to eliminate the bump steer problem with the FR kit. notice how far in the inner tie rod pivot is, that is the key to bumpsteer with a rack and pinion. you need to get the inner pivots as close to the pivot point of the LCA as possible. i would imagine there is still some bumpsteer with this kit, but it certainly wouldn't be any worse than the stock steering system and it might even be better than stock.

66Runt · Sep 10, 2005

That was my impression too.

Talking with the rep, Bumpsteer, turning radius and "industrial strength" were the things he was most proud of. They packed 6.5" of rack movement into a very small package, and still kept it exceptionally strong (according to what he was saying).

IIRC, bump steer is set up for stock suspension. It has been tested on a car equiped with Hooker Pro-comps and has a 3.75 turn lock to lock. According to the rep it is exceptionally easy to turn, as there is basically no defliection in the rack system since it's built very beefy.

I'd take it over the FLaming River rack, and would check and adjust for bump steer as needed.

Scott

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