Aod drag racing

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

Ok.. I have always had 5 spd cars. I now have a 91 Lx convertible with a stock aod and 3:73's, h pipe, and catback. It is slow compared to my last car. Is there anything I should know about drag racing with an aod. I noticed that it does not have the option for 2nd gear... Kinda sucks, but I have heard about the 1-2 shuffle or something like that. My guess is you start in 1st, then drive, after it shifts to second, back down to 1st. Then to drive for 3rd. I have also heard that this is not good for the trans. Is there a way to do this without hurting the trans?

mikestang63 · Feb 6, 2013

IMO your options are

1) do the 1-2-1 shuffle and know that you are living on borrowed time. Save up for a new transmission or
2) install a shift kit or better yet a silver fox valve body

You should at a minimum install a trans cooler if you plan on racing. Heat is the worst enemy to an auto trans. I would also recommend changing the shifter to something like a B&M Hammer that ratchets and has reverse lockout.

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

Does the silver fox valvebody let me shift it manually 1,2,3 and still retain d and od?

mikestang63 · Feb 6, 2013

Here you go. You can get one with or without the O/D lockout feature. They also have one that allows you to get rid of the TV cable.

http://www.silverfoxtrans.com/silverfoxtrans.com/VB_AOD.html

Give Dan a call. He is a great guy and has helped out many people with their setups before and after the sale.

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

Thanks

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

Does anyone know why the 1-2-1 shift hurts the trans?

larrym1961 · Feb 6, 2013

When my Mustang had an AOD in it, I did the 1 to 2 then back to 1 shift lots of times with it @ Bandimere Speedway and on the street. when I swapped to a 5 speed manual my AOD had over 100,000 miles on it and still worked well.
My AOD was equiped with a TCI 2400 stall converter and Trans GO shift kit and external trans fluid cooler. I believe that a trans cooler is a must if you want your trans to live a longer life doing the 1 to 2 back to 1 shift on them.

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

mikestang63 said:
Here you go. You can get one with or without the O/D lockout feature. They also have one that allows you to get rid of the TV cable.

http://www.silverfoxtrans.com/silverfoxtrans.com/VB_AOD.html

Give Dan a call. He is a great guy and has helped out many people with their setups before and after the sale.

Thanks.. I just checked out the website.. I will prob be calling for more info.

mikestang63 · Feb 6, 2013

f8tlfiveo said:
Does anyone know why the 1-2-1 shift hurts the trans?

In a nutshell when you do the 1-2-1 shuffle the OD band engages for a second. You will tear up the OD band after a few months IMO. Some may say they did it with no problems. I've seen over a dozen stock AOD's throughout the years that needed rebuild because of this.

Direct quote from Dan at Silverfox racing a few years back.

Myth and mystery solved HERE TODAY:

...this is bad for stock units and it is DIRRECTLY linked to the VB and no other part. The OD band is not a fualt (not really anyhow)

The OEM VB doesn't alow the OD servo to exhuast fast enough before the 3/4 clutch engages and this burns the OD band when you shuffle into D range for 3rd gear. And acting as a double edged sword...since the oD band is binding it slows the 3/4 engagement and makes the dirrect slip more than it should.

Combine these events with a 89 or older AOD with the case bore accumulator and you got a pretty messy shift.

Shift kits provide some reliefe though....and so do kevlar bands (less burn)...the kits are designed to prevent any shift overlap between the OD Band and the dirrect engagment by increasing OD servo disengage fill rate and increasing the dirrect piston engagment. Both are done by increasing size of sperator plate holes.

It is kinda tricky though also, if you exhaust the band too fast before engaging the dirrect you would get a flare that would let the RPM raise and then slip the dirrect as it engaged. And obvisouly if you do the opposite it will burn the band again.

Note that the 1D1 is also bad on the DIODE...as it was never intended to see as high RPM as we push them too That is why the 7 element AOD diode has such a bad rap. And the Extra RPM you push it too increases the chances of tossing the snapring.

Some FACTS:

The OD band ONLY applies durring the MANUAL 2nd (D-1) and the OD (4th) range. The OD band is the DRUM BRAKE so when you let off the gas you have engine braking - or in transmission terms called: Overrun. If the OD band is burnt or not engaging you will FREEWHEEL and have NO engine brake in manual 2nd and also have a nuetaling effect in 4th gear. Note that the 1D1 shuffle also USES the OD band more than regualr use...meaning, Ford never intended you to manual 2nd the trans alot - therefore by doing the 1D1 shuffle you are accualy cycleing the OD band more times in it's life cycle than what Ford intended you to do so...this is just an excuse, but it does have merit.

The D range does not apply the OD band on the 2nd gear shift, cause as you know, the second you let off the gas it shifts to 3rd.....Ford didn't find it neccesary for you to hold 2nd gear. However Baumann first invented what is today known as the EPOXY mod and allows manual 2nd but however does not apply the OD band in 2nd therefor it freewheels. Today's aftermarket VB builders have invented ways to control the OD band application and use it for manual 2nd now - along with the ability to lockout OD....very nice!!

Now that I spoke about the 1D1 UPSHIFT, now consider the manual D2 downshift. NOW if you were in 3rd and you slap the shifter back into manual 2nd to slow down or force the downshift. The OD band is applied and the dirrect disengages and this IS a reason for concern of the 1D1 shuffle as well. using it as a brake to slow down is bad, but manual downshift for performance is okay, but still not fast enough on the band apply - if you have c/b servo, you are asking for trouble.

Manual first....forward clutch engaged and REVERSE BAND...the reverse band allows engine braking....if you find that you feewheel in manual first, you more than likely don't have reverse either due to a burnt band. Often reverse bands are burnt up by people who race around in manaul 1st alot and coast down to stopsigns alot or pull back into manual 1st to help stop the car. The Reverse band does not engage in D range much like the OD band doesn't as well.

Note that some FREEWHEELing can be expereinced if the VB is sticky and not allowing the proper valves to work freely...often due to age, sitting months, useing Type F, iregular service, trash in system, dirty fluid.

So...to recap...shift kit = good and better manual 1D1. AT LEAST keep the TV pressure high for the 1D1 on a STOCK VB. Those that have 89 or older VB's...just stop now! Those that have 90+ VB's, you are accelerating the invevitable.
__________________
------------------------- Dan Gilsdorf ---------------------------

larrym1961 · Feb 6, 2013

I forgot to mention my AOD also was upgraded with the larger A servo for the overdrive band which helped also.

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

Thanks mikestang that is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

gearheadboy · Feb 6, 2013

My friend had an 85 AOD convertible. We did the 1-2-1 with the throttle to the floor for years and had lots of fun. Never had an issue. Would I do it now that I know what it can damage? Heck ya! It was a blast. Just figure on a valve body with your rebuild when it is time or buy another trans to build to race while you enjoy yours. Also when you do it a converter is a must for the AOD car to leave well.

gearheadboy · Feb 6, 2013

Oh and I almost forgot, as a transmission rebuilder/repairer for almost 20 yrs I have some opinions on tranny coolers. First and foremost I have seen WAY WAY more transmissions destroyed because a tranny cooler was installed than protected from harm because of them. What do I mean? If you are gonna do one the concept is good, but hard pipe it. The spliced transmission lines required by aftermarket coolers is a stupid idea. Transmissions make 100-300+ psi in reverse or WOT. Barbed ends don't cut it. Would you do this to your fuel lines? Double clamps? Rubber hoses provided or the fuel hose that some kits use crack and loosen up in a year. The hoses pop off and slip the trans, or pop off and cause a fire. Radiator transmission coolers are fine for most applications unless towing. If you add one, hard pipe it for piece of mind and it will absolutely protect your transmission.

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

gearheadboy said:
Oh and I almost forgot, as a transmission rebuilder/repairer for almost 20 yrs I have some opinions on tranny coolers. First and foremost I have seen WAY WAY more transmissions destroyed because a tranny cooler was installed than protected from harm because of them. What do I mean? If you are gonna do one the concept is good, but hard pipe it. The spliced transmission lines required by aftermarket coolers is a stupid idea. Transmissions make 100-300+ psi in reverse or WOT. Barbed ends don't cut it. Would you do this to your fuel lines? Double clamps? Rubber hoses provided or the fuel hose that some kits use crack and loosen up in a year. The hoses pop off and slip the trans, or pop off and cause a fire. Radiator transmission coolers are fine for most applications unless towing. If you add one, hard pipe it for piece of mind and it will absolutely protect your transmission.

I will take this into consideration. Has anyone ever proven without a cooler it will definitely cause problems?

gearheadboy · Feb 6, 2013

f8tlfiveo said:
I will take this into consideration. Has anyone ever proven without a cooler it will definitely cause problems?

If you are towing a trailer, its a good idea. However trucks are designed with this in mind and some with extra heavy duty cooling systems for this. Believe it or not car manufacturers spend some pretty big money on research to determine what is needed. Now on a Mustang or race application a factory system is probably adequate. Having said this a stall converter raises temperatures because of slipping. Also at the track you sit a lot or don't cruise at highway speed enough to dissipate heat. Repeated trips down the track could overheat it. Of course changing fans and radiators changes things too. To be safe a trans temp gauge would be a good indicator but truthfully for most Mustangs, I see no need for an extra cooler.

f8tlfiveo · Feb 6, 2013

Where would the temp sender get mounted if I were to put a gauge in?

gearheadboy · Feb 6, 2013

f8tlfiveo said:
Where would the temp sender get mounted if I were to put a gauge in?

Now thats a good question. I'd have to look at a housing of an AOD. You will have to search that one.

88LX5.Oh · Feb 7, 2013

f8tlfiveo said:
Where would the temp sender get mounted if I were to put a gauge in?

In the cooler line. Here's some B&M instructions
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/bmm-80212.pdf

f8tlfiveo · Feb 7, 2013

Ok. I figured I could put it in a line. Just figured it would be more accurate in the trans somewhere..

Aod drag racing

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

mikestang63

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

mikestang63

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

larrym1961

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

mikestang63

larrym1961

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

gearheadboy

gearheadboy

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

gearheadboy

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

gearheadboy

88LX5.Oh

f8tlfiveo

My wife likes my spool and blow-off valve.

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