Been Burned Once With A Header Purchase And Don't Want To Get Burned Again!

NotMyStang

Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Oct 14, 2003
25
1
4
Hey guys, on another project of mine, a 1995 Mustang, I purchased a set of long tubes headers, where the fitment left a lot to be desired. So now that it is time to get headers for my current project, a 67 coupe, its like starting from square one all over again.

I would prefer long tubes, but maybe that is not the answer. I have been scowering the message boards for advise on long tube headers. I have a mild 347 (roller block) backed by a late model bellhousing and T5 with a Modern Driveline external hydraulic clutch. I would love to have 1 3/4 primaries but my AFR 185 heads were not drilled with the wide pattern, so the primaries would need to be pinched down to fit, making access to header bolts a pain, even with the little-headed ARP bolts.

The main questions I would like to answered is which headers have fit well, where did you get them, what did you do to make them fit, and what to did you do when they didn't?

I was really starting to like FPA stepped headers over JBA and Hooker due recommended fit and how well the tuck up to the body, but after reading some posts on how the owner's attitude turns if you have problems, I'm not so sure. Maybe order a set from summit or jegs would be better so I have a better chance at resolution if something goes wrong?

Sorry for the long post, but this subject has been weighing on me. So what you you think.

Thanks.
 
  • Sponsors (?)


NotMyStang,
Not sure what your intended goals are for "mild 347". Are you looking for/is your engine built for higher RPM (over 6500 or so) performance or are you leaning towards good lower end "GRUNT" say, in the 1500-5500 RPM range? I could be mistaken, but most o what I've read/heard is that large tubed, long tube headers don't give you much, if any extra bang in performance until the higher RPMs while the lower end might even suffer a little. Well designed/made Tri-Ys seem to be noted for increased low end performance, have fewer fitment issues and don't really choke you up until you get pretty far up in the RPM range. I can tell you that my little 5.0/P-headed/B303 cammed/580 carbed engine with tri-y's SCCRRREAMS, starting at about 1900 and kicks in like a banshee from 3000 right on through 6500!:burnout:

My $.02,
Gene
 
Gene, thanks for the feedback. The 347 was in my 95 with both short and long tubes. When I went to long-tubes, low-end driveability improved and this went what I thought was supposed to happen (I've been wrong so many times before, so....), improved low-end and more HP at higher RPMs. I do not intend to spin the engine beyond 6500 on a regular basis, it is a 347 after all. In hindsight I had the 347 built a little too much, the block will go long before any internals do. When I did take the 95 to the track with this engine, the car, at full weight would trap at 114 mph, with 2+ sec 60 foot times, maybe this isn't mild, I really don't know what everyone's definitions of mild or hot engines are. I do know that this motor is about all I need, for now. Another reason I liked the long tubes was for getting heat out of the engine bay. I think the higher 11+/1 c/r is causing an exxcessive amount of heat to be generated (seem to remember something about pressure, temp, and volume...).

Who made your Tri-Ys? They may very well be the solution I need. Low end "GRUNT" is what I want, this is what gets you off the line and passes cars on the freeway. The OVERWHELMING majority of this car's time out will not be at a track.
 
I'd also recommend FPA. Maybe they do take problems personally. That may be a good thing. With the warehouse stores they simply take the stuff back, issue a credit, send the stuff back to the manufacturer where it probably gets reboxed if not damaged and sent to someone else. Call them and talk about your wishes - you never know - they seem to welcome prototypes that show a chance of selling.
 
Hi,
Doug Thorley makes a good set of TRIs. When mine die, (purchased in 1996) he's on my bring up list. I'm running a set of TRIs on my 331 and together with the other junk, it makes 400 RWTQ at 4200 Rs. They are good for 6K.
 
Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

68GT500KR, I asked about the coating because elsewhere I read that if you buy coated headers you are on your own. Sounds like you had a great customer experience.

Seems FPA deserves a phone from me.

I didn't even know adapters were an option for the heads and headers, but I don't think I'll need them. Thanks for the info.
 
I 2nd horse sense, it would really suck to have to put a dimple in a coated header. It will cost more to coat after fitting, but you will be sure they fit like you want with all adjustments made.
 
Thanks for the input. Yea, it sucks it costs more but its the only way to be sure. I don't think I'm willing to gamble that they'll fit perfect. On the plus side, I was watching an old episode of Overhauln, Rustang, and they used FPA headers. And Mustang Monthly loves them too.
 
Here's a thought. If you purchase coated from FPA, what are supposed to be a "perfect fit" and they need dimpling, etc, mark where the dimples/massaging is needed and send them back for them to dimple and recoat. On the other hand, my cerama chrome tri-y's (brand unknown, made special for GT40"P" heads) needed a dimple here and there for the pitman arm, one spark plug, etc, and after 3 years/15K miles there has been no additional cracking or flaking around the dimples. It pained me to do it when needed, but it hasn't caused any problems/issues.
My $.02,
Gene
 
i have had to dent headers when installing, that were cermachromed ,if you use a ball peen hammer and coat the end with a couple pieces of duct tape ,7nth wonder of the world, you can get away with out marring the coating ,as long as you dont crack it you can polish the spot again. i did a set of hooker cross under headers on a 67 shelby with
a 428 pi they were a pain in the butt to get in ,but believe it or not they went in with out having to make one single dent they were cermachromed, i hope to have the same luck with johnnys car
 
Doug's Headers and Doug Thorley Headers are two different animals. Doug's ex-wife got Doug Thorley Headers. Doug started a new company as Doug's Headers (now owned by Pertronix). I don't know if he started something new since selling out to Pertronix.

I have a set of 1 5/8" Doug's Tri-Ys. PERFECT fit in my '66. Tuck up nicely under the car. Per belwow, I run a built 331 and it pulls hard to the rev limiter at 6600RPM. I have not heard anything bad about FPA, but in case they don't work out, you might look at Doug's.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I would really like to take the gamble that the headers will fit and not need "dimpling", but you all know that will not be the case. Murphy's Law. Maybe I'm too negative, but after the last set....

I will check out Doug's and the other Doug's. Is there any difference between them, since they were both started by the same guy?
 
I tried to read through most of the posts and just wanted to add my commentary. Something about the drag racer in me loves long tube headers, always ran them on my drag cars, open of course. But if you have an exhaust system hooked up to the back of the headers, you are really no better off if you have long tubes or shortys...as long as the primary diameters are the same. Long tubes give you a scavaging effect where the exhaust from one cylinder will help pull the exhaust out of the next one and so on and so forth, this only works if you have an open header (or a tuned collector). If you have a pipe bolted to the back you will get back pressure which negates any scavaging effect. So...if you plan on keeping your exhaust firmly bolted in place and never opening it up, shorty's will do you just fine. That has always been my experience anyway. Some cars run better with back pressure (my last car ran 1/10th faster with shortys and a short exhaust system than with my long tubes...and was a lot quieter)