Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Now we got the Canadian callin' the guy from Louisiana a redneck......this should be interesting.
bent valve rods!!! wtf happened????
- Thread starter samuraichamploo
- Start date
QDRHRSE
New Member
Michael Yount said:
Mike,
What gives MY!!!! Your from Knoxville. Does your neighbor have a mullet!!!! Nothing but love...
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Careful there Palmdale - 'redneck' has nothin' to do with geography; it's all about attitude. And I've been to your neck of the woods - you can't hide from us. I do believe the highest concentration of mullets I ever saw anywhere was Sat./cruise night in Simi Valley. 
408stroker5.0
The world would be a better place if all males jus
QDRHRSE
New Member
hey, do i have to go buy a whole new set of lifters? can i just get 2 random flat tappet lifters and mix them in with the other magnum lifters that are installed?
also, what length pushrods should I be buying with my setup?
any part #'s That i can go to autozone or ford tommorow and pickup would be great.
also, what length pushrods should I be buying with my setup?
any part #'s That i can go to autozone or ford tommorow and pickup would be great.
Where is that little ball by the way?[/QUOTE]
I hope not in the engine but as I said I should have noticed if there was a problem. No? There is no shavings in the oil, I heard no noises, it ran well for the little while I ran it before starting to restore it. I figure to find out I need to start it unless I pull the heads, correct? I am trying to think the "ball" is gone but safely away from doing any damage. Maybe it was never there........not a logical conclusion but I am at a loss here. I respect all your suggestions Mr. Yount but in this case I wanted to take that guys advice and hope for the best.....as I said there is nothing to make me think there is any harm caused by the ball but it is puzzling as to its whereabouts and why the pushrod is damaged.
I hope not in the engine but as I said I should have noticed if there was a problem. No? There is no shavings in the oil, I heard no noises, it ran well for the little while I ran it before starting to restore it. I figure to find out I need to start it unless I pull the heads, correct? I am trying to think the "ball" is gone but safely away from doing any damage. Maybe it was never there........not a logical conclusion but I am at a loss here. I respect all your suggestions Mr. Yount but in this case I wanted to take that guys advice and hope for the best.....as I said there is nothing to make me think there is any harm caused by the ball but it is puzzling as to its whereabouts and why the pushrod is damaged.
QDRHRSE
New Member
Salty,
Is your cam a 280H? Because I ran a cam like that over 10 years ago and with a 1.7 rocker the lift of that cam would probably be about 540. The cam I ran was a Comp Magnum 280H. The H stands for hydraulic. I think everybody is assuming (I did) that you are/were using a solid cam. That changes everything. How did you adjust the valves? Did you know that cam uses a different firing order than a later model 302??? Also, I know somebody mentioned this, are the head studs screw in or press in? With lift over 500 you really should not even bother with pressed in studs. They will all pull out eventually.
You can replace the bad lifters individually. Please remember, however, when you take it apart, the same lifter must always stay with the same cam lobe. Non roller cams are different in that way. A roller lifter can interchange....but not a non roller. If your lifters were damaged I would suspect that your cam is damaged too. You'll find out if the cam goes flat. Good luck.
Is your cam a 280H? Because I ran a cam like that over 10 years ago and with a 1.7 rocker the lift of that cam would probably be about 540. The cam I ran was a Comp Magnum 280H. The H stands for hydraulic. I think everybody is assuming (I did) that you are/were using a solid cam. That changes everything. How did you adjust the valves? Did you know that cam uses a different firing order than a later model 302??? Also, I know somebody mentioned this, are the head studs screw in or press in? With lift over 500 you really should not even bother with pressed in studs. They will all pull out eventually.
You can replace the bad lifters individually. Please remember, however, when you take it apart, the same lifter must always stay with the same cam lobe. Non roller cams are different in that way. A roller lifter can interchange....but not a non roller. If your lifters were damaged I would suspect that your cam is damaged too. You'll find out if the cam goes flat. Good luck.
If you are running TrickFlow heads then you need to get different pushrods then for a standard head. Its because the way they angle their valves. I dont know which pushrods you have but if you have TrickFlow heads, a 289/302 block, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam then the recommended length and size is the 5/16th 7.300 inch long pushrod. I recommend TrickFlow pushrods because they are a beautiful one piece chromemoly steel setup. They are extremely strong and that should be about right for your setup. If I were you I would replace the two lifters, and all pushrods to make sure they are right. Then call trickflow and ask what the max safe allowable lift and duration for a TrickFlow headed 302. Then compare that with your cam, and if its just lift that is too much then step down to a 1.6 rocker. You really need to call trickflow because I looked at the specs for your cam and its like 230/230 duration, .542/.542 lift with 1.72 rockers. I'm pretty sure that is too much for stock pistons and trickflow heads. After you call them tell us what they say. Depending on what they say, I strongly recommend pulling the head off to see what pistons you have and if the valves look like they hit something. And no matter what you do, change the oil before starting the engine again because of any bits from the broken lifters. Trickflows number is 330-630-1555
Ok, because I'm an awesome guy, I called TrickFlow for you and this is what I asked and then what they said. "Hey, what is the max lift and duration I can use with TrickFlow heads and a stock 302?" and he replied "You can run up to .540 lift and 238 duration." This is more than I thought you could do, but here is what I would do in your case. Honestly, you should pull the heads and check the pistons to see what you have, check the valves for signs of hitting, get the 7.300 pushrods I mentioned, 2 new hydraulic lifters, and step down to 1.6 roller rockers. I need some 1.72's and I have 1.6's so I would trade you if thats cool. Now, since you may not have much money you can risk not looking at the heads because once you crack the bolts loose you will need to replace the head gaskets AND the head bolts since they are only good for one torque, but thats up to you. Get the correct pushrods, 2 lifters and swap rockers. That should fix the problem I think.
Im pretty sure that the cam is for a flat tappet motor.
I almost positive that it wont work in a roller motor.
So, all i need to correct all this is 2 new lifters (that for some reason should be hydraulic?!) and all new pushrods?
I almost positive that it wont work in a roller motor.
So, all i need to correct all this is 2 new lifters (that for some reason should be hydraulic?!) and all new pushrods?
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
If it were me, I'd 1) one by one (so as not to mix up anything) I'd pull rockers off, and remove pushrods/lifters to see if anything else is wrong/bent; 2) I'd measure (with caliper) one of the straight pushrods to confirm the length you need; 3) I'd take a good lifter with me to a parts/performance place to try and match them up; 4) once it's back together, I'd measure p to v before I started it. I also don't think I'd start it until I figured out for sure why it happened in the first place. Based on what's in the thread (guesses and conjecture) there's not enough info to give me confidence that the same thing's not gonna happen again.
I see no reason to replace any pushrods that aren't bent. And you can only hope that the cam lobes which were broken in with the other lifters are gonna hold up under the new ones. One of the benefits of rollers is you don't have to worry about cam/lifter break-in.
I see no reason to replace any pushrods that aren't bent. And you can only hope that the cam lobes which were broken in with the other lifters are gonna hold up under the new ones. One of the benefits of rollers is you don't have to worry about cam/lifter break-in.
I take it back, its a competion cam, 280-h magnum cam.
I bought 16 flat tappet generic autozone lifters today as well as 16 new pushrods.
AND THEY ONLY CHARGED ME FOR 4 OF EACH!!!
total price was a little over 25$
God, i love distracted clerks.
I bought 16 flat tappet generic autozone lifters today as well as 16 new pushrods.
AND THEY ONLY CHARGED ME FOR 4 OF EACH!!!
total price was a little over 25$
God, i love distracted clerks.
Do you know what length you bought? You cant use stock length pushrods with trickflow heads. Are you even listening to what I'm saying. I called TrickFlow and your lift is too much. I know its a Comp cam, I looked it up at Summit to get the figures for it, and yes its a hydraulic flat tappet cam and it will work in either block. And what are you talking about Yount, my advice was dead on.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
I'll stick by my earlier post Smock - all we've got so far is a bunch of guessing here. We don't know what kind of lifters, what kind of pushrods, what kind of cam, what kind of springs, what kind of rockers, we don't know what kind of pistons -- at least I haven't read anything yet about any actual MEASUREMENT that's gone on. It's all been based on what someone else said about the car (as I recall he didn't build it, he bought it). And we still don't know WHY it happened in the first place - people have guessed why it happened based on, I don't know what - looking at the pictures I suppose. About all we really know is that it's got Trick Flow heads. Maybe I'm missing it - saltymaz - have you measured pushrod length? Pulled the springs and checked them for bind height? Measured p to v?
Trick Flow can't tell you what cams are gonna clear in your engine -- those dimensions are different for every engine. THere are folks with a lot less duration than they've mentioned that have p to v problems. Granted, the range of durations that will work is gonna be different with a flat tappet than with a roller because of different ramp rates, but the only way to know what's gonna clear is to measure - they should've said that. And their 'advice' regarding not having much money so don't pull the heads, well, the surest way I can think of to spend even more money is to put the motor back together with out really knowing what's wrong. I hope it comes out ok - but hope is the best I can do, cause there seems to be a big lack of fact here, near as I can tell.
Trick Flow can't tell you what cams are gonna clear in your engine -- those dimensions are different for every engine. THere are folks with a lot less duration than they've mentioned that have p to v problems. Granted, the range of durations that will work is gonna be different with a flat tappet than with a roller because of different ramp rates, but the only way to know what's gonna clear is to measure - they should've said that. And their 'advice' regarding not having much money so don't pull the heads, well, the surest way I can think of to spend even more money is to put the motor back together with out really knowing what's wrong. I hope it comes out ok - but hope is the best I can do, cause there seems to be a big lack of fact here, near as I can tell.
I told him what trickflow said and they are right on for what I asked them which was about trickflows on a stock height 302 with stock pistons. Meaning no decking, blueprinting, resurfacing the heads and with stock pistons. Now throw in your own percentage of error acceptance, and that the motor was built by someone else, and its been rebuilt so it probably has been decked or something. So if hes at the max for what trickflow says is safe for an numilled surface 302, then its safe to say with broken lifters and bent rods that he is pushing it. And I told him the best thing if he didnt know for sure what pistons and such that he should pull the head and check for valve damage. I really think he needs to learn more about engines before he goes and changes cams, and pushrods and pulling heads. Since he doesnt know what happened, he allowed it to happen, and that he cant give us any measurements nor can he even name the parts correctly, he doesnt sound very seasoned. Why doesnt anyone else think that is a lot of lift and duration to be using with any 2.02 valve head. In every other threat about E cams and TrickFlows everybody freaks out about valve clearance, but then this guy is talking 230/230, 542/542 with bent push rods and nobody seems to think its clearance related. To be honest, after something like that happened and I didnt build it, I could never feel comfortable until I knew what pistons were in it at least. Because from there by just looking at them, you know what you are dealing with, if you know what to look for. But he never acknowledged what I posted about the rod lengths. Instead he just went to a parts store and bought the cheapo 302 stock pushrods. Know that i think about it, not only wont they have the right length but if its the cheapo then its not going to last long with guideplates. I'm praying for this kid becuase he sounds really lost in the sauce. He went out and bought parts before we even finally dove into his problem. Its only one od 2 things both of which I covered. Hopefully it was just loose rockers like the guy skipped a cylinder when adjusting. If every other rod and lifter came out fine then that could very well be, and I may just fix the rods and lifters and fire it up. He, he could of smacked the pushrods with the back of the intake during removal. Guess we need some more answers.
BarnStang
Founding Member
Saltymaz, If you didn't get the danger from the two posts above, let me make it clear. If you are running Trickflow Twisted wedge heads, then they MUST have the gudeplates installed. If they are not installed, well, I don't know what will happen, but it could fly apart on you (like it did). THese heads are designed to use guide plates!
Assuming the guideplates ARE installed, you MUST use hardend push rods. The stock push rods from the parts stor will get chew up by the guideplates AND drop metal shavings into the oil which we will now "hope" that the oil filter catches.
THe point has already been made, you need the right length hardened push rod to use Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads. CALL Summit Racing and ask them for hardend pushrods for a Ford 302 that are 7.300 inches long. At least this way you will at least be close...I called Trickflow and asked the same question as above when I did mine. I ordered what they told me to order, and put it together the way they told me to oput it together. I haven't touched my valve train since it was installed over 5 years ago...still runs GREAT.
Not trying to be a dick, it just seems you are not listening to the advice you are asking for. No one wants to give you a hard time, they just don't want to see you in more pain and anguish that is sure to come. And they want to see you enjoying a great car, not cursing at it in the garage...
Assuming the guideplates ARE installed, you MUST use hardend push rods. The stock push rods from the parts stor will get chew up by the guideplates AND drop metal shavings into the oil which we will now "hope" that the oil filter catches.
THe point has already been made, you need the right length hardened push rod to use Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads. CALL Summit Racing and ask them for hardend pushrods for a Ford 302 that are 7.300 inches long. At least this way you will at least be close...I called Trickflow and asked the same question as above when I did mine. I ordered what they told me to order, and put it together the way they told me to oput it together. I haven't touched my valve train since it was installed over 5 years ago...still runs GREAT.
Not trying to be a dick, it just seems you are not listening to the advice you are asking for. No one wants to give you a hard time, they just don't want to see you in more pain and anguish that is sure to come. And they want to see you enjoying a great car, not cursing at it in the garage...
QDRHRSE
New Member
Everybody,
This guy is a knob. How does he even know how to adjust the rockers if he doesn't know the difference between roller/solid/hydraulic.....etc? Everybody's told him what he should do and he goes to autozone and brags about the killer deal on mystery parts that he is not sure will work. Doiley even went out of his to do research for this clown. Between MY and Doiley he has received excellent advice and the idiot goes to autozone and buys cheap parts!!! I'm going on record saying that the cam is damaged. That cam, which I had back in the day, is not a billet steel piece like most of are used to in our hyd roller motors. Its is junk (good grind though) and can't take that kind of abuse. Doiley is 100%, indisputably, right. That piece of crap needs to come apart for inspection. Things happen for a reason. It burns me up to see a thread go on like this. Why ask???
This guy is a knob. How does he even know how to adjust the rockers if he doesn't know the difference between roller/solid/hydraulic.....etc? Everybody's told him what he should do and he goes to autozone and brags about the killer deal on mystery parts that he is not sure will work. Doiley even went out of his to do research for this clown. Between MY and Doiley he has received excellent advice and the idiot goes to autozone and buys cheap parts!!! I'm going on record saying that the cam is damaged. That cam, which I had back in the day, is not a billet steel piece like most of are used to in our hyd roller motors. Its is junk (good grind though) and can't take that kind of abuse. Doiley is 100%, indisputably, right. That piece of crap needs to come apart for inspection. Things happen for a reason. It burns me up to see a thread go on like this. Why ask???
