Bent Valve? Valve Didn't Seat? I Don't Know What's Going On.

Maryland Stang · Jun 3, 2013

fords2live said:
Heads have been milled 20 thousanths last fall. I've never given them the opportunity the warp though. No high temps. I found out though that after '92 mustang started going down hill with quality engine parts. They put Torque to Yeild bolts in the heads which have been reused over 5 times now.. I did have to replace a couple though and did notice they went about a full turn further than the factory bolts.. Could be the problem.

I did reuse my TTY bolts but it was only the second use. Ford says 3 and they're out. A lot of people say to never reuse them. I'd start with some new bolts. I'd also put a straight edge on the heads and check them. The uneven torquing may have "bent" them a bit.

fords2live · Jun 3, 2013

I hope not. I'm gunna tear it apart wednesday; Put it together thursday; And try to get everything worked out friday. And when I start trying to break everything in, if it isn't already, I just don't want to wear the crosshatch out and not have anything for the rings to seat with. Things that i've read say that if you don't get the rings to seat by the time the crosshatch wears smooth then they never will. Which will turn into oil burning and loss of performance. Basically I don't want to go to easy on it making sure everything is good and it be to late to seat the rings. Should I let it idle for a while to let the head gaskets get hot and then pull the valve covers off and retorque? But what if I didn't even blow another head gasket. Everything on the lower end was put together good.

fords2live · Jun 3, 2013

This is what I found

In 1992, the type of cylinder head bolts used on the 5.0L engines was changed to Torque-To-Yield bolts (TTY). Depending on the build date of the engine, the 1992 model year engines came with either TTY bolts or standard torque, not a combination of the two. In 1993, TTY bolts were used on all 5.0L engines.

The two types of bolts that are used are physically different as you can see in Figure 1. The standard torque bolt is a non-flanged hex head bolt. The torque to yield bolt is a flanged head bolt. Both types of bolts may be used on any of the 5.0L engines. The bolts must all be the same style on each cylinder head.
Caution: Do not use both types of cylinder head bolts on one cylinder head. Do not mix and match. Each cylinder head must have all of one type of retaining bolt: Standard Torque or Torque-To-Yield.

The TTY cylinder head bolts are available in a packaged kit (F3ZZ-6065-E). The kit contains the following:
• (5) 7/16-14x3.94 bolts
• (5) 7/16-14x2.49 bolts
• (1) 3/8-16x7/16-3.93 stud
• (1) Instruction sheet (I.S. #6605)

Some applications use various quantities of studs for fastening items to the cylinder heads.

Torque Specifications
For the non-flanged standard hex head bolts, tighten in two (2) steps as follows:
1)Tighten all bolts in sequence (Figure 2) to 55-65 ft.lbs (75-88 Nm).
2) Tighten all bolts in sequence (Figure 2) to 65-72 ft.lbs (88-98 Nm).

For all Torque-To-Yield hex head bolts, tighten in three (3) steps as follows:
1) Tighten all bolts in sequence (Figure 2) to 25-35 ft.lbs (34-47 Nm).
2) Tighten all bolts in sequence (Figure 2) to 45-55 ft.lbs (61-75 Nm).
3) Tighten all bolts in sequence (Figure 2) an additional 1/4 turn (85-95 degrees).

When the cylinder head bolts have been tightened following these procedures, it is not necessary to retighten the bolts after extended operation. TTY bolts must be replaced with new bolts. Do not reuse TTY bolts. TTY bolts may only be used one time.

fords2live · Jun 3, 2013

I ed up. Hopefully not to bad. I definitely did everything this says not to do...

Maryland Stang · Jun 3, 2013

I wouldn't worry about the rings at this point too much. You've driven it repeatedly and it should be pretty much settled in. Just check the heads real quick and put it back together with new bolts or studs. Which ever you like. The only thing you did aside from the head bolts, that worries me, is the way you broke the cam in. My process is longer and has several different RPM levels.

fords2live · Jun 3, 2013

What summit tech told me is that you hold it above 2000 basically to keep the oil pressure up to help start the lifters in rotation. And i used comp cams cam break in additive too. If the lifters were going to give wouldnt they have done it already?

Hawkeye_306 · Jun 4, 2013

TTY bolts are intended to give more precise clamping force (which is purpose of head bolts.) The relationship between clamping force & torque (on non-TTY bolts) is not very precise - increased thread friction (if not chased/lubed) can result in too low of clamping force even at the "right" torque. This is why precision builders use bolt stretch gauges (& not torque) when installing rod bolts.

TTY bolts are tailored such that the yield strength is ~ matched to required clamping force. As you keep tightening the bolt into the yield range, there is a relatively consistent window where the clamping force remains constant as the bolt yields (maybe 1/4 a turn?). But this window gets smaller each time you reuse the bolt (if 1/4 turn is the limit & you hit this the first time, you're done, if you got to 1/8 the first time you have 1/8 to go the next time, etc.)

After you go too far into the yield range, the bolt starts necking (gets thinner) and at that point you are loosing clamping force with further tightening.

So, it is safest to always replace TTY bolts after one use, but it is CRITICAL to replace TTY bolts if you notice the torque starts dropping as you keep turning it or If you see the bolt has started necking.

fords2live · Jun 5, 2013

Good info.. Seriously. Good stuff. I've been trying to grab the concept of how TTY bolts work.

Rick 91GT · Jun 5, 2013

To properly break in a hyd flat can you should run it at varying rpm from 2000-3000rpm for 15-20mins with a good ZZDP additive (like the Comp one you used). This allows the lifters and can to form the initial wear pattern....

Personally just buy ARP head bolts...Moly lube on the upper bolt, nuts and washers and Teflon paste or permatex on the bottom but use moly on the washers and nuts to get a proper tq reading.

If you want to know if anything is hurt cut the oil filter open and see what you find.

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jrichker · Jun 5, 2013

Be aware that the ARP bolts have a radiused shank under the bolt head. The ARP washers have a matching radius machined into them. Be sure that the machined radius of the washer is fitted next to the machined radius on the ARP bolt heads. Forget this little fact and you will never get the head bolts to torque down properly

Coat the underside of all bolt heads with anti seize and the threads of the long bolts. The short bolts thread directly into the water jacket and need a different treatment. Use Teflon Pipe dope on the threads of the short head bolts. It will prevent any coolant seepage from around the threads. You can get the Teflon pipe dope from the hardware stores, Home Depot or Lowes.

fords2live · Jun 5, 2013

Another question tho. Why does one of my E7s say 13 on the top and the other says 14? Is that left and right

Rick 91GT · Jun 5, 2013

Casting marks....truly doesn't matter which is left or right, the front port gets the threaded insert for your brackets, the rear port get the air tube or blocked off.

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Rick 91GT · Jun 19, 2013

So what did u end up doing?

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fords2live · Jun 22, 2013

I bought some heads off a buddy for 120 bucks. They're E7s, P & P'ed, shaved down, valve job, new guides and seals. They do pretty good. But I tried backing my timing down; tried 38 total with 4 different curves and initial at 18 and 23, ran like a old beaten dog. So I tried locking it out at 38 and still ran like until 4000. So I started bumping it up more and more and ended up at 23 initial and 48 total with all my timing in by 2000. It runs good and strong, it's just to loud to hear any ping. I run premium in it and what not. But I think something is going on with the MSD E-Curve distr. that I have. Because it looks like its exactly 10* off? I talked to MSD and they didn't make it sound like there was anything wrong with that high of timing. So Idk what's going on.

fords2live · Jun 22, 2013

And when I put the tape on the balancer I was degreeing the cam so I got it perfect at TDC with the pointer.

fords2live · Jun 22, 2013

Idk. Maybe I used the wrong tape, Because I didn't measure I just checked to see which tape lined up with the marks on the balancer. The thing is though, I set it for 25 degree advance and that what it reads. 23 initial and 48 totatl

Rick 91GT · Jun 22, 2013

Wonder if you have the wrong pointer and balancer combo...that timing reading is way, way off.....usually 32-36 is tops no matter what n/a combo.

Did the timing set line up dot to dot or did you have to adjust it when degreeing the cam?

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fords2live · Jun 24, 2013

Lined straight up with the cam card dot to dot

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