Best N/A tq + hp tips and tricks, do tell all

Ranchero5.0 · Aug 5, 2005

In the boat (naturally) looking at tips and tricks to build a mean NA motor with enough torque below 3000 to get it on plane, rpm limit it 6k with a max cruise of 5600rpm. I have a couple of D port motors on the way, one will get dropped in for the rest of the season, the other to be built over the winter.

No holds barred, any tips and tricks for these motors is appreciated, mini stockers welcome.

Where to port the heads
Which pistons to run
How much to mill the heads / block deck
Cam selection
Custom keyed sprockets
Oil control
Anything else.

The combo is a holley 2 barrel on a cast iron intake through a D port head and out a cast iron water jacketed log manifold.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Also any links on 2.3 builds is appreciated.

Jamie

Mr. Merk · Aug 6, 2005

esslinger is the ticket, find them

i've got a fairly large cam, and easy to find FMS A237 but its almost too big as it is and there are other running bigger now

however i prefer advancing this cam and bringing in more low end power (it'll do 6k+ easy)

esslinger billet aux shaft/bronze dizzy gear

esslinger round tooth timing belt conversion kit (netted 4whp on an NA 2.3, and comes with adj cam gear)

get you a nice header

very ported D-port with 1.89/1.59 valves

dual valve springs

i'm not really good with carb'd setups, all my stuff is turbo too

but for the stuff that i mentioned you can often get it from turboford.org (for sale thread) and esslinger

oh and esslinger usually has a special on longrods and pistons

Touring23 · Aug 6, 2005

What gas? 85? 110?

Ranchero5.0 · Aug 6, 2005

Fuel will be 87 or 89 octane. Expecting 4-7 GPH at full cruise. Depending on how the motor turns out will depend on which prop pitch I run.

Got one of the motors today, plain jane 2.3 EFI from a 5 speed 87 stang. Is there any info on stock cams in these things? Boat cam has a white reference mark and the car one is green. Going to pressure wash the motor tomorow to get rid of all the gunk on the inside and out and put it together as a runner. I do have to pull the aux shaft and drill out the block for the mechanical fuel pump. May try to get an early carb block for the good build. Is there any other differences?

Thanks for the info.

Jamie

Red_LX · Aug 6, 2005

You shouldn't have to do any modifications to the block or change the aux shaft to install a mechanical fuel pump. I would think an '87 engine would still have the pump blockoff plate there (bolts on just like on a V8) and the aux shaft should have the lobe on it for the pump, though the lobe may need polished. Now, I could be wrong, but my '84 Turbo engine still had the plate there, I haven't looked at my '87 turbo engine to see if it did or not. I've heard some later engines did not have the opening for the mechanical fuel pump.

Can you swap out the manifold for a better one? Esslinger and Racer Walsh both sell a couple nice two barrel intakes. You could also pick up one of the 500 cfm holley two barrels. Or go with webers or mikunis (maybe if you have lots of money to spend, heh)

For oil control you might want to consider a crank scraper since the engine will be at high RPM's a lot, maybe a baffle for the oil pan if it doesn't have one, or a windage tray.

What else...underdrive pulleys could help out. Also don't forget about milling the head.

Touring23 · Aug 7, 2005

Ranchero, this Pinto article might help:
http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~bmclean/pages/m2_faq2.htm
It was mentioned here:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=457913
---
Where to port the heads
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1903706769/104-5590795-8599102?_encoding=UTF8&s=books&v=glance
Which pistons to run
I would think forged (to survive accidental hydraulicing)
How much to mill the heads / block deck
Depends on the cam; probably no more than ~.050" with the RW#1 roller, very little or none with the factory roller
Cam selection
Factory roller from 90-93 'Stang or 89-94 Ranger
Custom keyed sprockets
???
Oil control
? Oil pressure guage and warning light
Anything else
A long tube header, Hedman, Hooker, or Schoenfeld. 1 1/2" primaries 24"-35" long with a 2"-2.5" collector. Might need custom to fit in the space available?

Red_LX · Aug 7, 2005

If he's looking for n/a performance I don't see much sense in running a factory roller cam. Might as well get something from the aftermarket that helps with the upper RPM's.

Touring23 · Aug 7, 2005

Well, there's no one right answer, especially when we factor in cost and what I want to call "liveability", a set-up that will be easy to live with. Going back to

...enough torque below 3000 to get it on plane, rpm limit it 6k with a max cruise of 5600rpm.

I could see the factory roller, retarded some to extend the top end with a 1 5/8" header--stretch the RPM band up. Conversely, I could see the RW#1 grind with a 1 1/2" long-tube header and the 350 CFM carb--extend the RPM band down. I've never seen a dyno pull for the former, here are my dyno pulls with the latter (but fuel injected). Currently I have a 1 5/8" header with the RW#1 grind and the torque peaks fully 1,000 RPM above his needs, so it is possible that the RW#1 will be too much cam....depending on the rest of the package.

Red_LX · Aug 7, 2005

Well, there's always the option Mr. Merk stated- go with the larger cam like the RW #1 and then play with the cam timing until it's where you want it.

Ranchero5.0 · Aug 7, 2005

Yep, I was looking at the esslinger site, figured the basic flat tappet 1500-5500 cam would work. Going to email them once I get a little further along.

For this motor I had to drill out the mechanical fuel pump port in the block today. 3/4" drill bit twice and some die work to connect the holes. Spent the rest of the afternoon pressure washing the thing clean and giving it a hookers rebuild (can of paint). The aux shaft had the fuel pump lobe on so I should be ok.

For the header it's a can't do unless I water jacket it (safetly first). Haven't had a chance to look at the other sites yet.

Surprisingly the intake gasket I got for this motor had the oval ports. Is there any benefit to that style port on a carb'd NA motor? Supposedly the mini stocker guys love them.

Thanks for the input.

Jamie

Red_LX · Aug 7, 2005

I wonder what the cutoff was for when they stopped casting the fuel pump boss into the block.

Anyway, I think 90% of the gasket kits out there have the oval port intake gasket. I dunno why, I guess so they don't have to make more than one gasket.

Touring23 · Aug 7, 2005

I would expect the marine exhaust manifold to be a hindrance. But OK, if it's required then them's the breaks.

Ranchero5.0 · Aug 8, 2005

Touring, the biggest hinderance is packaging. I get almost 2" of clearance around the motor before I run into the motor cover. It's a pleasure boat, not a speedster so I want the cover to keep the kids out of the belts and to keep the motor noise at bay. God only knows why a 2.3 has to sound like a rampant sewing machine at speed but I couldn't talk over it while trying to diagnose the steam blowing out the oil fill. I really don't have enough height to install a taller intake without lifting the cover (which I can do about 2" worth)

The exhaust manifold weighs about as much as the head, but it does have decent ports. At least I don't have to contend with a cat or muffler. Motor actually sounds good through the water mufflers.

Red, my block is an E7 and the head looks like an E6. Intake was an E7, didn't see anything newer on this one.

Other oddballs are a decent windage tray, custom oil pan setup. Not much for accesories, just a water pump and a alternator. Could fab up some underdrives if I convert it to serpentine. Currently V belted.

Keyed timing sprocket is just like the 9 position motorsports V8 peice. had 9 keys allowing a couple degrees of movement depending on which key you use. I can fab one of them up pretty quick with a broach.

Jamie

Mr. Merk · Aug 8, 2005

all the pullies from esslinger are v-belt bad for me

Mr. Merk · Aug 8, 2005

oh and i'd still go with the esslinger round tooth kit that comes with adjustable cam gear (not multi keyed), i also have their windage tray, nice piece

Ranchero5.0 · Aug 8, 2005

I'll fab a windage tray in a couple hours and save the $120 or so. There prices are too rich for regular folks. Not super intersted in the round tooth conversion either unless I coud get one for about $100. As said above, free is the best price even if I have to work for it. This is just a little old fashioned hod rodding.

Jamie

Red_LX · Aug 8, 2005

Ranchero- I built a windage tray for my engine out of some stainless steel sheet I had that I got from work, I have pics of it on my cardomain page if you want to look. I spent awhile getting it all to fit right, and I had to "dimple" one rear corner of the oil pan to clear it, but I have a total of maybe $10 in the whole thing (that was pretty much just for hardware I bought to mount it with), and IMO it's a better tray than the one Esslinger sells. The only real problem I had was finding the best way to mount the tray to the engine...I ended up doing it a little "ghetto" but it works. I also have a crank scraper on mine that I got for $50 off ebay, the place selling them should still have them on there. Honestly I think Esslinger's windage tray is sort of a compromise, as it appears to be partly a crank scraper as well, I'm not really sure.

Also, if you can find a newer ranger in the junkyard you could get the round tooth sprockets you need for $20 or so. I don't really see how the round tooth setup gives you more power though

Ranchero5.0 · Aug 8, 2005

Surprisingly even the cams are availiable through NAPA etc with similiar specs to the esslinger parts for $159 vs $199. From my research I should have a decent cam in the marine edition of this motor. Need to get a degreee wheel and figure it out.

Did clean up the gasket surfaces on the exhaust manifold and it's almost exactly like the mini header from the stang only it seems to have larger ports throughout. The intake is a lot larger than the EFI ports.

Jamie

Mr. Merk · Aug 9, 2005

round tooth is less friction than square tooth, its like an accesory being turned on

Ranchero5.0 · Aug 14, 2005

May have to rethink things a little bit. Got some water time in over the weekend. A 90lb kid on a tube really kicks this thing in the butt. Motor was having a hard time planing out from 3k-4k, but once it planed out it was fine. Already working on a hydrofoil to help with prop ventilation and to help lift the rear of the boat. 200# friend at the stern and it would not plane, but did pretty quick with him in the bow. Already have the anchors and all the extra weight up there.

New motor has a bunch of blowby, but still ran hard to 5k and 38mph on the water. Planed out in under fifty feet which made me happy. I have a seven off after Tuesday so I plan on fabbing the foil and getting some more seat time to figure out what I want to do with the new motor.

Jamie

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