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Black Jack: Fixing torque steer

  • Thread starter Thread starter FastDriver
  • Start date Start date May 29, 2015
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Noobz347

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So, what ends up happening is the bank gets trimmed to the center of a combination between your leanest and fattest injectors. That variance would be less than what you see in the thread above.
 
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AeroCoupe

lube between the nut and the face. I know my lubes
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I have a set of 42 lb/hr injectors off a lightning and just dropped them in the car and never thought much about it until a couple years ago. Pulled them and had a local guy flow, disassemble, clean, reassemble with new filters and pintle caps and the difference was pretty big. They were flowing on average 37 lb/hr and after the clean up 43 lb/hr with less than 2% deviation. These are Ford/Bosch injectors so I would expect that.

With regards to matching / having balanced injectors I would say that level of build is pretty high end. For most of us if they are within a pound I’d say it’s good.
 
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FastDriver

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I'm probably overthinking it for the winter build, but I did have a ringland go in a dart/forged motor. That's not cheap in time or money. I run the same injectors in boths builds, and I'm definitely going to get this done or buy a setup to do it myself on those injectors.
 

85GTStangGuy

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FastDriver said:
Is this the kind of tool that would let me do it myself?
Click to expand...

No idea actually, but would you want/need one of the models that services 8 injectors at once? (versus that "4 cylinder" model you linked).
 
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Noobz347

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Question:

I realize that your tuner setup is designed to sense/tune/adjust per cylinder bank but is there any provision for manually trimming a single injector?
 

FastDriver

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@85GTStangGuy

I'm sure it's unlikely that the first one I saw would be the best choice, but the description reads, "If there are 8 fuel injectors, divide them into two groups and clean 4 at a time."

What I would like is the ability to directly and precisely measure the inputs to the computers like:
- Voltage offset
- hi & low slopes & breakpoint
- opening delay
I don't really know what else, but of course the ability to do ultrasonic cleaning, ensure consistency across injectors, etc...

I don't think the one I linked can do voltage offsets.

It would be cool to get @Decipha or @a91what's input. Apparently, it's not too hard to tune high slope & low slope based on how the AFRs are off. Here's a thread that descibes the process: https://eectuning.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9395

Since I replaced my old FMS 30 lbs that I bought BNIB just a few months ago, I figured the factory test data would be good enough, and went straight to tuning the MAF. But, and this is important, *so long as injectors are consistent* then you should be able to adjust injector slopes in the tune to compensate.
 

FastDriver

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Noobz347 said:
Question:

I realize that your tuner setup is designed to sense/tune/adjust per cylinder bank but is there any provision for manually trimming a single injector?
Click to expand...
I tried to address this regard to the BS3. The short answer is no. And if it's possible with the EEC, I am unaware of that. I doubt it.
 

Noobz347

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FastDriver said:
I tried to address this regard to the BS3. The short answer is no. And if it's possible with the EEC, I am unaware of that. I doubt it.
Click to expand...

The physical controller inside of the EEC may be a one-for-all.

I'll have to look around for a board diagram. If a driver/controller does exist for each (vs. a batch controller) then it's a matter of firmware.
 
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85GTStangGuy

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FastDriver said:
....I'm sure it's unlikely that the first one I saw would be the best choice.
Click to expand...

Understood.


FastDriver said:
....the description reads, "If there are 8 fuel injectors, divide them into two groups and clean 4 at a time."
Click to expand...

I still think it'd be better to be able to see/compare/measure all 8 of them together.
 
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FastDriver

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Probably right, Larry. That would help ensure consistent conditions.
 
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Noobz347

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FastDriver said:
But, and this is important, *so long as injectors are consistent* then you should be able to adjust injector slopes in the tune to compensate.
Click to expand...

Also: This is the [very] reason why "Tuned" MAF sensors will only get you so far.

My PMAS sensor calibrated for 42s, ran like crap and it's because of the reasons outlined in the article you sited above.

I've been to lazy to really sort through all of that but I understand the concepts pretty well. If you get this all sorted in y our head, this will be your job when you retire.

They even have schools for the [doing] portion of all of this.
 

FastDriver

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I stand corrected. A bit if googling suggests if I set up a Cam synch, the BS3 will do individual cylinder fuel trimming. I don't have any way to measure anything individually, but a starting point would be simple compensation for injector flow, once measured.
 

Noobz347

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FastDriver said:
I stand corrected. A bit if googling suggests if I set up a Cam synch, the BS3 will do individual cylinder fuel trimming. I don't have any way to measure anything individually, but a starting point would be simple compensation for injector flow, once measured.
Click to expand...


I could think of a few things that you could do to "fine tune" if you ended up that far down into the weeds including but not limited to, a simple heat sensing gun on exhaust tubes (leaner is hotter).

Another method would be to trim one cylinder in each bank at a time and comparing the AFR/RPM logs. With adaptive tuning enabled you can see how far closer/further from center the EEC attempts to trim the bank after each adjustment.
 

FastDriver

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Another guy did something similar on corral. So, I posted my mod list from the first post, which is pretty updated, and I asked ChatGPT what it would run in the 1/4. I thought its answer was really good:

With that setup, assuming good traction and proper tuning, your Mustang should be capable of running somewhere in the mid to high 11s, possibly dipping into the low 11s depending on conditions.

Factors Affecting ET:

1. Power Output:

The GT40X heads, tubular GT40 intake, and E-cam combination with 1.7 rockers should put the naturally aspirated setup around 300-320 WHP.

With the 100-125 shot of nitrous, you're likely in the 400-450 WHP range, depending on tuning.

The T56 with a 2.66 first gear means launching will be different compared to a T5.



2. Weight & Aerodynamics:

Fox-body Mustangs are light (~3,100 lbs or less with driver).

Any weight reduction (rear seat delete, no spare tire, etc.) will help.



3. Drivetrain & Suspension:

3.73 gears strike a balance for both N/A and nitrous runs.

The Eaton Truetrac & 31-spline axles mean solid traction.

The Lakewood 50/50 rear shocks and Team-Z adjustable control arms should keep the rear planted.



4. Tires & Launch:

The Nitto 555RII 275/40/17s should give decent traction, but they're not a full drag radial.

If you drop pressure to ~15-18 psi and get a good burnout, they should hook fairly well.




Estimated 1/4 Mile Times:

Naturally Aspirated: 12.2 - 12.5 @ 108-112 MPH

On a 100-125 Shot: 11.3 - 11.6 @ 118-122 MPH


If you spray out of the hole with traction and get your 60-foot down to ~1.5-1.6 seconds, it could break into the high 10s.

Do you have a dyno sheet or trap speeds from previous runs? That would help dial in the estimate more.
Click to expand...
The car's done a best of 12.63@108 NA. It's gone 12.0@114 on the spray, but I don't even think that was really a 100-shot.

I believe it'll go 11.5-11.7 and do 118+.
 
Last edited: Feb 27, 2025
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FastDriver

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#635
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Then I prompted: "What did it cost to build and what could I sell it for. It needs paint but runs well"

Estimated Build Cost & Resale Value for Your Mustang

Since you have a well-modded Fox-body Mustang with a T56 swap, nitrous, GT40X heads, and supporting mods, I'll break down rough build costs and potential resale value.


---

1. Estimated Build Cost

This is a ballpark based on current 2024 part prices:

Engine & Power Mods


---

Drivetrain & Suspension


---

Brakes, Wheels, & Misc


---

Interior Mods


---

Total Estimated Build Cost:

$22,000 - $25,000

Labor costs could push it over $30K if done at a shop.



---

2. Current Resale Value (2024 Market)

Your Fox-body Mustang is desirable, especially with:

T56 swap (rare)

Clean interior

Nitrous setup

GT40X heads and solid drivetrain

5-lug swap & Cobra brakes


However, needing paint hurts value.

Estimated Resale Value:

As-Is (Needs Paint, Runs Well): $12,000 - $15,000

With Fresh Paint & Cleaned Up: $18,000 - $22,000

If Fully Built for Track (Slicks, Cage, etc.): $20,000 - $25,000+


Who Would Buy It?

Fox-body enthusiasts (nostalgic guys in their 40s-50s)

Drag racers or street/strip guys

Collectors who want a clean build

Younger buyers looking for a street car


Conclusion:

If you put $3K-$5K into a good paint job, it could push the value close to $20K. If you just want to sell it quick, listing at $12K-$15K should move it fast.

Let me know if you want tips on how to sell it effectively or where to list it!
Click to expand...

I kept track of everything for a long time. I think I have at least $15k in the car on top of using the T56 I already had. And, I think $15k is about what it might pull, but I'm not sure. So score 2 for AI.
 

bird_dog0347

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#636
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FastDriver said:
Then I prompted: "What did it cost to build and what could I sell it for. It needs paint but runs well"



I kept track of everything for a long time. I think I have at least $15k in the car on top of using the T56 I already had. And, I think $15k is about what it might pull, but I'm not sure. So score 2 for AI.
Click to expand...
GPT needs to get a price update on paint, $3-5K won't cover all the materials for a good paint job, let alone the labor.
 
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FastDriver

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bird_dog0347 said:
GPT needs to get a price update on paint, $3-5K won't cover all the materials for a good paint job, let alone the labor.
Click to expand...
I talked to a nearby guy with low overhead who paints and the best number he could throw at me was $9k.
 
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bird_dog0347

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#638
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FastDriver said:
I talked to a nearby guy with low overhead who paints and the best number he could throw at me was $9k.
Click to expand...
I'd say that's likely the best price you'd find.
 

Noobz347

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#639
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I'm just going to have to paint my own .
 

bird_dog0347

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#640
  • Feb 28, 2025
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Noobz347 said:
I'm just going to have to paint my own .
Click to expand...
The materials are still crazy!
 
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