Boss 302 Engine/transmission question

[automart]

We are in the car business, we have a person who says they have a "real" Boss 302 engine and 4 speed transmission for sale. He says it's been stored for a long time but now needs a car and has no money. I'm a little concerned because things like that don't happen much and the over the past years I've had people tell me their car has a Boss 302 and it's really not.

Anyway, I have the casting numbers from a web site for the engine block but I don't have the transmission numbers. Any help would be appreciated.

Ronnie

 

[woodsnake]

A toploader isn't worth much only as a transmission, 700~ or so.

It's worth more as a pair only to the person who really owns the whole "Boss" car. What kind of numbers in he asking for the pair?

 

[automart]

I spoke to him on the phone this morning, he said he was offered $3000 for the motor

a couple of years ago but turned it down. I believe that's what it can purchase for and maybe the trans. He's calling me back once he gets everything out of storage. It could be a wild goose chase but I'd like to be ready just in case!

 

[D.Hearne]

A genuine Boss 302 is easily identifiable with no casting numbers for help. The engine block will have screw in core plugs (not pressed in freeze plugs) these plugs have a recessed hex socket (like an allen screw, only larger. The intake was a highrise dual plane aluminum intake, the heads are Cleveland style castings with screw in studs and guide plates. The valve covers were finned aluminum. If you can pull the oilpan, you'll find a forged steel crank in a 4 bolt main block. The Toploader 4 speed will be a big block unit with a 1-3/8" input shaft, and should I think have a factory installed Hurst shifter

 

[automart]

Thanks for all the info

I'll let you know how it goes. He says the motor is complete from the caburator down. I know enough about these cars to get myself in trouble. I'll watch for the casting numbers, screw in freeze plugs, screw in studs and the input on the trans. I'll probably ask him to remove the oil pan just to be sure.

 

[D.Hearne]

The block is the one best way to Id a Boss. These were the only 302 blocks with screw in core plugs. If it's got pressed in plugs............it ain't a Boss. The carb was a Holley 780 cfm vacuum secondary and will have Ford engineering numbers on the choke housing. All the engineering numbers overall will have C9ZE prefizes with the exception possibly of the rods. These were 289 Hi-po forgings but with football shaped bolt cuts for the 3/8" rod bolts.

 

[BarnStang]

Some Boss blocks (not all) had the whole vin or a partial vin stamped into the block. Here is a site that may help. You may already know this one
The BOSS 302 Registry

Excerpt from the FAQ there:
Q: Engine block casting dates. What and when? What is the correct engine casting numbers for a BOSS 302 block? What casting date code ranges should be on a BOSS 302 block? A1: My car 9F02G194310 has its original block which is a C8FE casting. These are the race block castings not machined for dry deck. These blocks were used for a time in place of the C9 castings. I read that late '69 cars were built with D0ZE-A blocks. This is possible since I have a D0ZE-A block cast in late June 69. A2: Casting numbers on a BOSS 302 should be C80E-6015-B, C8FE-6015-B for early '69. C9ZE-6015A or B or D0ZE-6015-A for '69. D0ZE-6015-B for '69 & '70. D1ZE-6015-B for service block. Example of date code in casting C9ZE is C meaning the decade, 9 meaning year, Z meaning car line, E meaning Eng. div. If the engine is originally installed it will have the Mustang's partial VIN stamped into the rear of the block, just above the area where the bellhousing attaches. Example is 9F02G196957 will have 196957 stamped into it. Up front a small flat area on the driver's side carried another code that identified the engine build date. Several digits appeared only the first two decode as the date. The first digit is the last numeral of the year. For example, 9 is 1969, the second is the month. Example A is January.

 

[BarnStang]

Block

http://www.boss302.com/topload.htm

 

[automart]

Thanks so much for the info

I feel a lot better about making the right decision. So, what is a complete Boss 302 motor going for?

 

[D.Hearne]

I feel a lot better about making the right decision. So, what is a complete Boss 302 motor going for?

That's a 64 million dollar question.

 

[BarnStang]

Exactly. What D. means is that what it goes for s really what you are willing to pay for it. Say, if you had a Boss 30 car, and didn't havethe original motor, and came accross the block with your vin staped init, you would may be inclined to pay nearly any stupid amount of money for it. So, if its the real deal, AND there is a vin stamped in it (by the factory), and the car still exists, and you advertise it, and find the person with the matching car, it would be priceless.

To someone who has a Boss car and needs a boss motor, they would pay a a fair price. What's a fair price? Depends n a lot of things. Is it a 69 block? THese are hard to find, cause they were blown up on a regular basis in 69 ad were replaced with replacement service blocks. Is ist a 70? Still hard to find but are around. Is it the real deal? THAT is the 64 million dollar question. Know that you can get the tap to tap threads into the freeze ports, and you can get the screwin plug, and nearly everything else to make it a boss block. A lot of people have been ripped off. Your story sounds like the real deal. No one would store a fake boss motor.
So, can you get it for a reasonable amount? It depends on what the motor is first. FInd out what you have, then you can determine what you can get for it. DOn't forget todays market conditions too.

 

[automart]

Thanks guys

I don't have a boss, I have a 70 Mach I with a 351C motor. Those were good points to bring up about threading the freeze plugs. I don't really need the motor but as any Ford collector, anything that says Boss and is real is appealing.

The guy was at a local car show today with his GM parts for sale. I didn't get a chance to speak with him but do wonder why he wouldn't have brought the motor to the swap meet/car show. He did have some GM blocks and heads. It just makes me a little suspicious!

 

[D.Hearne]

Since Ford's advertising campaign of the early 80's touted "The Boss is Back" everybody and their little brother has had a Boss 302 at one time or another in a Fox body Stang. It's likely he's got one too.

 

[automart]

Your right, I can't tell you as a car dealer

how many people have told me over the years that "their" car had a boss motor in it. Most of the time I would just go along with it. I can't remember any of them ever materializing and I've been doing this for 35 years. I do remember the 428 mustangs on the lot. We would come to work and someone would have stolen the shaker hood scoops, we would just call the junk yard and for $50 they would send one over. Those were the days!

 

[l1k2gadd]

I passed up a 1 owner Grabber Green (painted over brown -yuk) 1970 "G" engine code 302 Boss in Homestead Florida back in 1983 or 1984. Back then the guy wanted $1,000.00 for it. I couldn't really afford it back then.

I also found another 1970 Boss 302 close to my house about 4 years ago, that is still Grabber Green, with the "G" engine code, in the garage of the dad of the owner, when I was an electric meter reader in this area. This one wasn't for sale when I talked to the dad and the motor and fuel tank had been removed from the car for maintenance. When I spoke to the dad I hadn't been in the Mustang market for a long time but he looked shocked when I he asked what the "old car" would be worth today and I under-quoted the car at around $16,000.00 or so. I think he thought it was just an old Mustang. He took my name and number back then to call me at if his son ever wanted to sell it.

Both of these were complete cars.

I appreciate all of the information about some of the basics about identifying a Boss 302 motor. I will remember that.

Ford did stamp the VIN number on 302s from 1968 and later. The VIN numbers I have found on 302-4Vs and 302-2Vs as well as the later EFI cars is stamped on the up-facing flat surface of the engine block, behind the intake manifold and directly above the two top transmission mounting bolts. Sometimes it will be stamped lightly and sometimes it is stamped better, but most of the time cleaning the area of grease and dirt, and a wire brush, will reveal the numbers stamped in the steel. They look like they are hand-punched. The parts of the VIN numbers I have seen, if I remember correctly, consist of the first, 5th and 6th through 11th VIN characters.