Boyd pleads no contest

RogerC62 · Aug 2, 2005

There was a blip in Kitcar Magazine about Boyd pleading no contest to illegally titling more than a 1000 cars. Anyone else catch this elsewhere? Evidently he's been titling his cars illegally for years. I guess he's required to pay a fine and do community service plus lecture on proper titling procedures to the auto hobby industry.

68rustang · Aug 2, 2005

I heard something about it a few months ago. It was something about using original tiles for his "new" cars or fiberglass bodies or something like that. It is something many custom builders do but on a smaller scale than he does.

krash kendall · Aug 2, 2005

Here's a bit of the story. OCRegister

bigcat · Aug 2, 2005

he got a slap on the wrist. but it comes to the question: when is a car not that car.....

its like you buy a hammer, and the handle breaks. you replace the handle. then the head breaks and you replace the head. is it still the same hammer?

if you got the title to a car, and want to fix it up. how much of that car can be replaced before its not that car...... change frame, motor, tranny, rear end, fenders, doors, 1/4s etc. what part of that car has to be there to make it that car? the VIN? i can cut the VIN out of another car, and weld that panel into this car. but which car is it?

65stanger · Aug 3, 2005

Gee.........I've replaced just about everything on my car at one time or another.......does this mean my car isn't my car???

I'm soooooooo confused!

t_chelle16 · Aug 3, 2005

Isn't the VIN associated with the frame?

Dad is rebuilding his motorcycle after wrecking it. Pretty much the only things original on it now are the gas tank, engine, & tranny (maybe a couple other minor things). We still consider it the same bike, but I believe that because he's got a new frame, he will have to get a new VIN for it (I could be wrong on that, he knows more about it than I do).

-Chelle

zookeeper · Aug 3, 2005

I don't know about the rest of the country, but here in Ca, the DMV practically forces you to lie about any vehicle you bought. Here's an example: my Dad and I have built several Model A hot rods in the past 25+ years. The typical routine goes like this, you go into the DMV and tell them you have an old car that took you about 10 years to restore, and in the meantime you lost the title, etc. They ask you the vin# and you supply a number. After 7 years, California DMV dumps its records, so if it's not on their records (which it won;t be since you're using a made-up number) they have no choice but to issue you a new title for $7 which you need to have a police officer verify. Then it's about $34 for plates and your done. No smog check, no brake and light check by the CHP nazi stormtroopers, no nothing, just bolt on the plates and drive. Option 2 goes a bit differently, as one of our painfully honest freinds found out the hard way. You go to the DMV and tell them you built a car from parts and you'd like to register it. They will hand you a stack of papers that would choke a hippo and ask for sales reciepts proving where you got the frame, body, front axle, rear axle engine and trans. The old "it's been in my garage for months" story won't cut it. If you clear that hurdle, you get a permit to trailer your car to the CHP office for a VIN# verification and a brake and light check. If the engine is a year that needs a smog check (post-'73) then you get to have a smog check with all the stuff that motor came with, and you get to keep getting that check until it passes. The whole process could take weeks and then the car gets a "Special Construction" title which means the next owner gets to go through the whole smog check thing again. I've learned to lie (and not feel guilty about it!) to the DMV jackass brigade every chance I get and I don't begrudge a builder like Boyd for doing the same. Screw the red-tape-government run around...

StangDreamin' · Aug 3, 2005

I'm curious..... what's the difference between what Boyd did and what Sanderson Sales is doing with the GT500E??? How much of a rusty old 67-68 six cylinder fastback is left when it goes on sale as a TCP suspended, 427 Windsor-powered Shelby complete with "vintage" (but made last week) Shelby VIN tag on the inner fender???

mdjay · Aug 3, 2005

Sanderson doesn't do the GT500E Shelby's! They originally had the rights to the sale of them, but they lost it soon after.

It's Unique Performance and they somehow have the rights by Ford to issue a new VIN #

I guess Ford has a little more pull with the DMV than old Boyd!

He's was dancing and saving face, but come on now! "I did know it was illegal."

I guess I'll try that line if ever needed and claim

krash kendall · Aug 3, 2005

"Q. You pleaded no contest to obtaining vintage titles for brand-new, Coddington-built vehicles that were stylized replicas of 1930s-era Fords. In what way did you think this was OK?
A. What difference does it make? It's very obvious the car's made out of fiberglass. You're not really misrepresenting something. "

I think he's missing or avoiding the point here. He's built a brand new car with a made to order body, new frame and drivetrain yet it's being passed off on the paperwork as a vintage car. Obviously if he's building what looks like a '32 Ford, it is nice to have it registered as such and also not have the headaches of smog checking it. However, are passed customers of his going to be holding the bag now that their paperwork has been found to be counterfeit? What would their insurance carriers have to say about the matter in the event of a claim? And what happens when a young dreamer buys an old model A out of a field two states over, fixes it up and goes to register it only to find out a customer of Boyd's has been driving the car for years? - Who has title to it then? The car somehow is two places at once.

limey66 · Aug 4, 2005

In the UK, we have very strict rules about what you can do to a car before it ceases to be what it left the factory as. I guess this is because we have age-related registration. We do get Cobra replicas that are registered as 1973 Jaguars for example, but it really isn't playing the game - say you comitted a hit and run, and the witnesses didn't get the licence number just a description of a green cobra - the car is registered as a blue XJ12 and will never be found!

If you build a car from second hand parts in the UK you can use the original title if a certain percentage of the parts are from that car, but that normally has to include the chassis.

Krash's point about two cars with the same title is a good reason for not doing it.

Boyd was a bad lad, and knew exactly what he was doing - sure we've all been doing it for years, and will continue to do so. He's put his hand up and taken the rap.

Renato · Aug 4, 2005

This is going to get more interesting once those '67 complete crate fastback bodies become available.

t_chelle16 · Aug 4, 2005

Renato said:
This is going to get more interesting once those '67 complete crate fastback bodies become available.

I think they already come with a VIN.

-Chelle

iskwezm · Aug 4, 2005

Anyway you look at it,Boyd is an ass,and a even bigger one in person.Ill be the first person in front of his shop(i live a couple of miles away) when his doors close,they already did once when he was in Stanton and filed a BK,but kept his mansion in the hills and all his property and then reopened under his sons name a few month later.

Max Power · Aug 4, 2005

t_chelle16 said:
Isn't the VIN associated with the frame?

Dad is rebuilding his motorcycle after wrecking it. Pretty much the only things original on it now are the gas tank, engine, & tranny (maybe a couple other minor things). We still consider it the same bike, but I believe that because he's got a new frame, he will have to get a new VIN for it (I could be wrong on that, he knows more about it than I do).

-Chelle

T_chelle, bikes are different than cars. Bikes have the VIN welded onth the frame, as it is usually the last thing anybody will replace. Most car frames don't have the VIN on them, as far as I know. At least it's not consistant...

t_chelle16 · Aug 4, 2005

I stand corrected.

-Chelle

StangDreamin' · Aug 4, 2005

mdjay said:
Sanderson doesn't do the GT500E Shelby's! They originally had the rights to the sale of them, but they lost it soon after.

It's Unique Performance and they somehow have the rights by Ford to issue a new VIN #

I guess Ford has a little more pull with the DMV than old Boyd!

Jay, when I posted that last time; I was quite blatantly trolling (hence the at the bottom of the post). However, I'm really about this one. A 60's vintage pony is torn down, repaired; one side or the other of 50% of the basic frame/chassis/unibody may be replaced; a 2000's vintage VIN is slapped on the nearly 40-year-old chassis/frame/unibody (or whatever is left of it); and it's represented as a 39-year-old car (even if it's only 38 - as in a '68 FB badged as a '67GT500E). And, with all of the assembly (manufacturing) taking place in the 2000's era, it's only subject to 67's emissions and safety regs - and it's being assembled and marketed by a for-profit commercial entity????
There are easily five times enough lawyers existant in the world today to give me pause at the thought of dreaming about purchasing one of these cars with the inherent liabilities.
Am I the only paranoid around here! (Shaddup, Fuzzy!)

EDIT: Don't get me wrong ; I'm still moving beyond the "Dreamin' " stages in grabbing the lonely old '67 coupe around-the-block; installing a sweet little Windsor with 5.0 MAF EFI, contemporary suspension, steering, brakes and creature comforts..... But it's not for-profit; it's for myself. Nobody is going to be responsible for it, only me.

65stanger · Aug 4, 2005

StangDreamin' said:
Am I the only paranoid around here! (Shaddup, Fuzzy!)

StangDreamin' · Aug 5, 2005

How did I know?

pabear89 · Aug 5, 2005

Good Question.............but the the voices tell me stuff too.

But I wonder if it would make it thru the offset frontal crash testing.
even lacking the airbag systems.

I bet theres a lawyer clause in the purchase contract somewhere.

Boyd pleads no contest

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